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In a compelling exploration of the Israel-Palestine conflict, we dissect the current events surrounding Gaza and the significant implications of recent statements made by prominent figures like Trump. The episode begins with heartfelt listener engagement, acknowledging current discussions while emphasizing the critical nature of grounding our debates in historical context and human experiences.
As we navigate the rich tapestry of historical narratives, we delve into the complexities faced by both Israelis and Palestinians. The discussion invites listeners to reflect on the severe humanitarian crisis unfolding in Gaza, leading us to question the broader power dynamics at play. In doing so, we confront the uncomfortable realities that many individuals face daily, urging a collective re-examination of the prevalent narratives.
Moreover, the episode sheds light on the impact of leadership and governmental decisions that often overlook the human costs of conflict. With both sides holding legitimate claims to the land, the hosts encourage understanding and empathy over division.
The conversation raises the question of what a path to peace might entail, emphasizing the urgent need for open dialogue and acknowledgment of shared humanity. Listeners are encouraged to engage thoughtfully with these pressing concerns, as we collectively navigate a complicated landscape. Join us as we seek answers and chart a course toward understanding and ultimately, peace — remember to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
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Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Welcome
02:37 - Responding to Listener Feedback
06:18 - Current Events: Israel
12:53 - Analyzing Trump’s Statements on Gaza
26:33 - Historical Context: Roots of Conflict
41:09 - Understanding the Human Impact
56:38 - Perspectives on Each Side and Path Forward
01:11:03 - Religion, Governance, and Their Implications
01:30:48 - Closing Thoughts and Reflections
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.981 --> 00:00:01.766
I was walking the dog.
00:00:01.766 --> 00:00:07.923
Actually, before we get into that, ken, welcome to the podcast, welcome to the Mick and Pat show.
00:00:07.923 --> 00:00:10.890
I'm Mick and I'm Pat.
00:00:10.890 --> 00:00:11.410
There we go.
00:00:11.410 --> 00:00:16.350
You got to introduce yourself, but thanks for joining us again another week.
00:00:16.350 --> 00:00:18.407
I was very flattered.
00:00:18.407 --> 00:00:27.157
Someone in our little training group, you know, uh, they reached out to me.
00:00:27.157 --> 00:00:30.830
They didn't reach out to me just in the group and as a whole they're like I'm catching up.
00:00:30.830 --> 00:00:32.981
I'm going through the backlog learning the lore.
00:00:33.423 --> 00:00:40.042
oh really, I was like wow, and they're like I'm on this episode I was like it's a good episode, uh.
00:00:40.042 --> 00:00:54.813
And then, with everything, there's been a lot of talks about Israel-Palestine stuff lately in a lot of our circles, just wondering, like, what Trump's going to do and like there's, you know, hamas is saying Israel's got to abide by the ceasefire before we release our hostages.
00:00:54.813 --> 00:01:05.671
Trump, of course, said the thing about, you know, us intervention in Gaza, and I'm not going to put words in his mouth because I've seen mixed things.
00:01:05.671 --> 00:01:07.862
I haven't seen him saying the U?
00:01:07.862 --> 00:01:10.947
S is going to annex Gaza and own Gaza.
00:01:10.947 --> 00:01:14.394
I haven't seen that quote.
00:01:14.394 --> 00:01:16.188
I've heard people saying that's what he said.
00:01:16.188 --> 00:01:37.793
Everything I've seen was like talking about, like essentially going in, providing aid, relief, rebuilding buildings, and then also kind of policing gaza to keep hamas from doing something to destabilize the ceasefire and they are working to relocate a lot of people, like there is a lot of yeah, no relocation and, like the pressure of, like, egypt and lebanon need to accept.
00:01:38.841 --> 00:01:39.343
Uh, what is it?
00:01:39.343 --> 00:01:40.506
Ethnically cleanse?
00:01:40.506 --> 00:01:49.091
Is the word they're using really, yeah, that's no, that's the word that you use when you are of an ethnicity and your nation has been dissolved and that's what they're.
00:01:49.552 --> 00:01:50.301
Isn't that weird?
00:01:50.802 --> 00:01:56.093
ethnically cleansed sounds like such a awful term for genocide, but technically it's a.
00:01:56.093 --> 00:02:04.567
I guess it's like the appropriate term for if you are from somewhere that no longer exists and you need to immigrate to a new nation.
00:02:04.567 --> 00:02:13.725
Um, which is ironic because that's also the language they used for all of the original jews that were migrated, like moved into israel back in the 40s.
00:02:13.725 --> 00:02:26.620
Right that they were ethnically cleansed from europe because they had to, like their original homes and nations were gone, so they had to become a new people and became israel again, which is just, I don't know.
00:02:26.620 --> 00:02:33.222
Maybe we bleep out that because I think a lot of youtube is gonna just think or anti-semitic, or say it say that
00:02:33.263 --> 00:02:35.008
word right, but that's the proper term.
00:02:35.008 --> 00:02:48.264
Yeah, which I was really surprised because that's the term in a lot of government documents too right now that are going out of the dod to like saying like hey, like ethnically cleansed migrants, you have to accept this many.
00:02:48.264 --> 00:02:50.789
Or, like you know, we want lebanon to accept this many.
00:02:50.789 --> 00:02:53.463
You know stuff like that, but I don't know you're.
00:02:53.463 --> 00:02:58.313
You're, of course, our expert with the people on the ground.
00:02:58.313 --> 00:03:00.483
Do you know?
00:03:00.483 --> 00:03:03.108
Is trump saying stuff of like owning Gaza?
00:03:03.108 --> 00:03:07.794
Or I know there is the talk about rebuilding buildings and damaging infrastructure.
00:03:09.262 --> 00:03:17.626
I think that and I haven't been following it that closely so I haven't dug into a lot of extra stuff besides what's kind of been coming through the feeds and stuff.
00:03:17.626 --> 00:03:35.229
It's pretty, I mean it's what Trump is proposing Is Something that will, I mean it'll really mean that Gaza's never the same again.
00:03:35.890 --> 00:03:37.108
Now Help me understand this.
00:03:37.147 --> 00:04:09.319
Break it down for the layman Meaning In you know, over the last, you know, even 20 years, there's been flare ups between Gaza and Israel and wars, but Palestinians in Gaza have maintained their sovereignty is not really the right word for it but they, like, they've maintained their, their, they've lived, they've continued to live there, they've had their own culture there.
00:04:09.379 --> 00:04:12.730
That is where they consider their homeland to be, as they've had.
00:04:12.730 --> 00:04:16.649
You know, they've been there for generations, generations upon generations.
00:04:16.649 --> 00:05:00.369
At this point, and so this is a new and different precedent for you know, really relocating this many people out again, and it's not the first time this type of thing has happened in israel to palestinians, but it is, um, in gaza specifically right now, it's going to be, uh, I mean, yeah, we're talking like millions of people, like getting put somewhere else and so displaced, yeah, and if we're talking the numbers and the millions similar to like how we a lot of people talked about, you know, in america, we said, we've said, over the last four years, we've had millions of you know, undocumented people 20 million right for the last four.
00:05:00.389 --> 00:05:12.944
a lot of people, um, and then now let's take this like on a, on how much tinier these like countries are, like land, even just land mass and capability wise, that are being asked to take on millions of people.
00:05:12.944 --> 00:05:17.244
It's like, um, that I mean I don't even know what the population of jordan is.
00:05:17.244 --> 00:05:19.896
Uh, let's see a little bit for population jordan.
00:05:19.896 --> 00:05:25.971
But I know jordan's been asked to take, I think, two million I'm I'm not sure the exact numbers.
00:05:25.971 --> 00:05:27.824
I need to look at it, but I didn't know.
00:05:27.863 --> 00:05:42.492
While I was looking at it they were using the word millions and it was like, okay, that is a huge undertaking and that means these people don't get to be in their homeland anymore.
00:05:42.492 --> 00:05:49.934
So, jordan population 11.3 million in Jordan.
00:05:49.934 --> 00:06:06.605
So, you know, bringing on even you know, 1 million, that's a pretty big swing on your population and I need to double check how many people are actually being asked to go there in case I'm just completely off base.
00:06:06.605 --> 00:06:15.050
Um, but it's just, uh, that's that's even a bigger deal than 16 million coming into America.
00:06:15.050 --> 00:06:21.548
You know, like for that many people to come into this small portion of proportionally this small the population is, small landmass, um, um.
00:06:22.562 --> 00:06:33.850
and so Trump's words have been pretty, uh, yeah, upsetting to a lot of people because it is kind of like, you know, the same way he's talked about it's the same.
00:06:33.850 --> 00:06:46.855
It's kind of the same like flippancy as talking about making canada the next state or taking over greenland, like as if it's up to one person and one person alone him.
00:06:46.855 --> 00:07:10.668
And that's like you know, I think that's the piece too, that, like that his attitude in some of those ways is what really rubs people the wrong way, where it's like he just comes out and says something like that and as if it's just he's going to decide if he's going to do it or not, yeah, and that's going to be, um, the way it is, you know, like, like, freaking, like pharaoh, like shall it be written?
00:07:10.668 --> 00:07:11.552
So shall it be done?
00:07:11.552 --> 00:07:11.932
You know?
00:07:12.742 --> 00:07:22.129
yeah, I mean, it definitely keeps people guessing, I think and so yeah, well, I was curious what if you had um was there.
00:07:22.129 --> 00:07:29.411
You were saying that some of the guys in the group have been talking about the Palestinian-Israeli issues.
00:07:29.411 --> 00:07:34.184
Was that in relation to any of like our like, to our podcast about that, or was that also just in general?
00:07:34.184 --> 00:07:38.725
They're talking about it and you're wondering what, what they're talking about it, and then there's a lot of.
00:07:38.884 --> 00:07:52.088
I will say this there was a lot of misconceptions about the situation, for sure, so I pointed them to our two israel, palestine episodes to get some like context and just stuff like that.
00:07:52.148 --> 00:08:40.011
But, um, yeah, it is interesting, you know, because it correct me if I'm wrong right here, because I know the Palestinian claim is this is our land, this is our home and you're occupying it, right, but isn't it historically pretty much known throughout, you know, not only like biblical history, but also like archaeological history, as well as like history using like quran and other references of like, like geographical history, like really the, the jews, israelites were really there in that region well before quote-unquote palestinians right?
00:08:40.131 --> 00:08:40.552
I?
00:08:40.552 --> 00:08:50.008
Well, in some ways, yes, but in lots of many other ways, no, and and that's why it's so messy, which would be the even like the word, like now.
00:08:50.008 --> 00:08:59.840
This title was adopted later by Romans, but, like the Philistines were there before the Israelites, they were, yeah, canaanites, amorites, right.
00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:02.489
And so there was people there before they came and took it.
00:09:02.750 --> 00:09:44.089
And so there was people there before they came and took it, and then Israel lived there for not that long on the time scale, you know, where historians say that, like Jericho, some historians say that Jericho was a 10,000 year old city, which is, you know, pretty crazy, like, and so if we're talking about those types of numbers and those types of people, groups there, and then Israel, israelites come in and get established after leaving Egypt, you know, and then the they, even while, even while Israel had control over the land, they still fought over it, like the whole time they were there.
00:09:44.089 --> 00:09:45.945
Their own nation split into, you know, control over the land.
00:09:45.945 --> 00:09:47.450
They still fought over it, like the whole time they were there.
00:09:47.450 --> 00:09:48.153
Their own nation split into.
00:09:48.153 --> 00:09:49.437
You know, judah in the North Israel in the.
00:09:49.496 --> 00:09:49.638
South.
00:09:49.638 --> 00:09:55.826
And then they had um, and then by the time, like Jesus comes around 2000 years ago, they were already an occupied state.
00:09:55.826 --> 00:10:07.160
They'd already been taken over by Rome at that point, or being occupied by Rome, um, and then shortly after that, 70 years later, you know, they're basically the diaspora happens.
00:10:07.160 --> 00:10:18.466
Jews head north and kind of head everywhere out of there and really kind of leave that area for the next 2000 years.
00:10:18.466 --> 00:10:24.385
And even during that 2000 years there were Jews there who maintained in that area.
00:10:24.385 --> 00:10:32.373
But then we have the Crusades pop up, we have Christians and Muslims fighting over the land for you know, three Crusades worth of time.
00:10:35.123 --> 00:10:47.496
And then fast forward another thousand years and we have World War II, zionism movement just before that ramps up.
00:10:47.496 --> 00:11:11.330
And then you have, you know, now, like you were saying, these people and now, after World War II, we need a place to establish them in Israel, and the Jews had already, zionist movement, had already been moving towards establishing, had already been moving towards establishing the reestablishing their claim to the land for the historical land of Israel, before world war two.
00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:18.668
But that really, like, gave that movement, you know, uh, jet fuel to make it happen with having support from many nations.
00:11:18.668 --> 00:11:29.344
And so, yes, um, the Jews were there before other people, but then other people were there before them and the hard.
00:11:29.365 --> 00:11:39.201
The hard part is if you really take the amount and this it's hard because this is gonna make me sound anti-semitic to a lot of people, right, like, like so I'm kind of, but I'm kind of given.
00:11:40.022 --> 00:12:15.849
What I'm doing here is I'm trying to give context and our audience, who would probably more typically be just like, wholeheartedly like, pro-israel, without even any knowledge behind it, I'm trying to give, like the here's, what's going on here, you know, because there are legitimate claims to Israel having this place too, claims to Israel having this place too, um, but at the same time, the the amount of time that they occupied that land, just in the grand scale of things, wasn't that long um to leave and then come back, and so it's uh, um, it's just messy.
00:12:15.989 --> 00:12:38.605
But now, in the biggest part now, I think for me is the fact that now Israel has been established for about two generations, where the people there two to three generations of people there Now it's like those people that's their home too, and like this is where they are, and so there's plenty of room there and plenty of resources there for all these people to live together.
00:12:38.605 --> 00:13:18.471
But when two different groups of people are like, excuse me, really driven by a needing to own a very specific rock, yeah, which is literally like a boulder that's inside of the temple mount or the dome of the rock, now Like it's hard for people to get along when they got to have a religion on that spot, so they're, um, you're not just going to easily have, you know, a bunch of people that coexist subaru bumper sticker rocking around there when they have like the steep stuff.
00:13:18.510 --> 00:13:28.865
And so, yeah, I think is, at this point in time, israel has legitimate claims, both historically as well as now, I mean coming in and establishing themselves.
00:13:28.865 --> 00:13:45.466
Now they have claims and, in the same way, gazans and Palestinians have a historical claim and a right to the place, and then you have groups like extremist groups like Hamas, and then you have groups like extremist groups like Hamas.
00:13:45.466 --> 00:14:16.149
There's some extremist groups on the Israel side of things as well that just don't allow for them to Right and even like that's more, like yeah, like that's the more government agency stuff, and then there's just like there are, like there's extreme, like there's extreme rabbinic and Judaic, like sects and cults yeah, and I was talking about that With a couple of them too, and people who've come in, and Israel, while small, is similar to America In that you have all sorts of different Groups of people.
00:14:16.188 --> 00:14:22.788
You've got your your quote unquote right wing gun toters Over to your left wing.
00:14:22.880 --> 00:14:23.327
Blue hares.
00:14:25.244 --> 00:14:26.581
And you have all the people in between.
00:14:26.581 --> 00:14:37.880
You have people living in kibbutz trying to be just like a peaceful monk, you got people who are politically motivated, people religiously motivated, and so, um, israel itself has a unique culture.
00:14:37.880 --> 00:14:39.283
And then also the.
00:14:39.283 --> 00:14:52.154
For the gazans specifically, the hard way forward that I'm seeing, which is difficult with the, the decisions Trump is making would be around the way.
00:14:52.154 --> 00:14:59.726
What's the way forward now Meaning prior to October 7th 2023,?
00:14:59.726 --> 00:15:03.972
I would you know the things that Trump was saying?
00:15:03.972 --> 00:15:06.015
I would be like absolutely not.
00:15:06.015 --> 00:15:27.633
These people have a right to this, this part, this little chunk of ground where they've really been relegated to and, and you know, occupied within um, even though they routinely stir up BS, for you know their neighbors, um, but now, um, the hard thing now is finding a way forward.
00:15:27.633 --> 00:15:33.369
After the amount of war that just happened in Gaza in a very small area.
00:15:33.369 --> 00:15:43.576
I mean, like I'd say from one what I do, but I do believe Gaza has been just about leveled at this point, and that's because the pictures I've seen from both sides, yeah, and so it's like, well, what now?
00:15:43.576 --> 00:15:46.761
You can't put millions of people back in there leveled at this point, and that's because the pictures I've seen from both sides, yeah, and so it's like well, what now?
00:15:46.761 --> 00:15:49.667
You can't put millions of people back in there.
00:15:49.667 --> 00:15:54.014
Um, you know what's the?
00:15:54.014 --> 00:15:56.830
What's the way, what's the right way forward?
00:15:56.830 --> 00:16:05.590
Now, I don't know what the answer is exactly, but it it's a hard, it's gonna.
00:16:05.870 --> 00:16:18.404
It falls into kind of the same predicament that we have with the Israel Palestine issue in general, which is, um, okay, who should get to live here and who should have to repay?
00:16:18.404 --> 00:16:19.989
Who should have to pay to rebuild it?
00:16:19.989 --> 00:16:20.711
All these things.
00:16:20.711 --> 00:16:23.990
Um, and then you know, is it just going to be?
00:16:23.990 --> 00:16:24.230
Is?
00:16:24.230 --> 00:16:33.578
Is Trump's plan, like I've heard people say, you know, just to, you know, basically turn it into the what was the term?
00:16:33.578 --> 00:16:43.327
They were saying Something like the, you know the, like Middle East Riviera or whatever, the Mediterranean Riviera, where it's just going to be, you know, lined with high?
00:16:43.327 --> 00:16:53.567
You know, are they coming in to build hotels, be a moneymaker for the already wealthy investors there, or is it going to be actually something where they establish?
00:16:53.567 --> 00:16:57.931
Are they going to build and establish a place for people to live?
00:16:57.931 --> 00:17:04.051
Either way, gazans and Palestinians are going to get the short end of the stick on it.
00:17:04.051 --> 00:17:10.372
You know they're not going to rebuild the whole place and you know, put in new floors and move everybody back in there.
00:17:10.732 --> 00:17:38.807
Well, right, before we go too much further, because I guess I mean I don't want to have the whole episode, you know, just be this, but it's also really good I have, you know, a couple of questions, right, the first one being is it correct to pretty much then say the claim of Israel's being occupied, or Palestine's being occupied, they're under an occupation?
00:17:38.807 --> 00:17:50.210
Is that, in the context of, if we look at it historically and like what everything leads up to to this moment in time, is that really a true statement, or is it more of?
00:17:50.210 --> 00:17:55.789
These are pretty much two groups that both have claim to the area.
00:17:55.789 --> 00:18:17.285
Some, like alistairians, have claimed to parts of israel, israel's claims to parts of israel in pal, you know, whatever right Like, both of them have parts they want from the other, and what we're more looking at is just like two groups divided that both have a right to the same location and one is winning.
00:18:17.285 --> 00:18:19.609
I'm just going to be frank One is winning.
00:18:20.211 --> 00:18:20.853
One is losing.
00:18:22.540 --> 00:18:34.031
Because that's what it seems like more to me from the outside right is like I I almost see it very similarly to um, what was it, uh?
00:18:34.031 --> 00:18:36.375
Russia's requirement of?
00:18:37.823 --> 00:18:38.304
what was it?
00:18:38.483 --> 00:18:38.904
crimea.
00:18:38.904 --> 00:18:49.710
Yeah, of like, there's a lot of russians that live in crimea that think crimea is russian, a lot of crimeans who also think it's russian, a lot of crime that live in Crimea that think Crimea is Russian, a lot of Crimeans who also think it's Russian, a lot of Crimeans and Russians who think it's Crimea.
00:18:49.710 --> 00:18:55.972
What it really comes down to is who's going to win when both of them want that same thing.
00:18:56.140 --> 00:19:07.153
Like the same thing and they don't want to share Right, and I know this is like a very simplistic and brutalist approach, but I don't think we're looking at anything new here.
00:19:07.153 --> 00:19:15.069
Like this is the same thing that's been going on in the sandbox for a very long time and that's, that's my assumption.
00:19:15.069 --> 00:19:17.769
That's how I kind of like seeing it.
00:19:17.769 --> 00:19:21.767
That could be totally wrong and I want you to tell me if it's wrong.
00:19:22.261 --> 00:19:37.030
Well, I think the the the hardest thing about answering this whole thing would be like people's view of what's right and wrong is just different, depending on your viewpoint of like there throughout history and throughout now.
00:19:37.030 --> 00:19:43.489
You know there's people who would say um, colonialism, imperialism isn't bad.
00:19:43.489 --> 00:19:46.474
People would say that's, that's abhorrent, you're destroying cultures.
00:19:47.422 --> 00:19:50.328
Um I'm not saying that's right or wrong morally.
00:19:50.328 --> 00:19:51.952
I'm just trying to say like, is that a right?
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:57.983
assessment of the picture, well, and that's what I would even say now, which is like how did we get all of our borders that we have currently?
00:19:58.044 --> 00:21:00.749
yeah, exactly, it was either through, in rare cases buying land off of other countries yeah, who had taken it from somebody else in the past, or um, conquer, conquest, and so like, and then post-conquest fighting for, you know, back and forth, pushing the line this way and that way and so on, an individual from from taking it from an like a perspective, individual to individual, it's a lot easier to get into the gray areas of who has a right to life and happiness here, who has a right to their homeland, and then as you zoom up and get into, uh, you know, 30,000 foot view mode it's like, depending on your worldview, it's one perspective is, you know, hey, we were here first and this is our land and we should have it.
00:21:01.230 --> 00:21:02.980
And that's what both people like.
00:21:02.980 --> 00:21:04.223
That's what both sides like.
00:21:04.223 --> 00:21:06.089
That's the argument they put forward first.
00:21:06.089 --> 00:21:08.448
Both sides make that same argument we were here first, it's ours.
00:21:08.448 --> 00:21:10.787
It's like well, what's your definition of first?
00:21:10.787 --> 00:21:13.201
It's like no finders, keepers.
00:21:13.201 --> 00:21:16.885
Well, you left it, you left it Now, I found it Okay Now.
00:21:16.885 --> 00:21:26.895
Then there's the other perspective, which would be I took this, I took it, I took it, or like, or I don't care if it was yours, now it's mine.
00:21:26.895 --> 00:21:36.984
And that is a hard, it's a brutal hard way to approach a situation.
00:21:36.984 --> 00:21:42.950
But from what I see from history, that is what happens, right or wrong.
00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:46.612
What happens is someone comes and says I took this, it's mine now.
00:21:46.612 --> 00:21:53.076
Almost like that scene from the Daniel Day-Lewis oil movie.
00:21:53.076 --> 00:21:53.616
What is that?
00:21:53.616 --> 00:21:54.678
There Will Be Blood.
00:21:56.339 --> 00:22:05.027
Yes, your milkshake's over there, but I put my straws over here and I drink it up.
00:22:06.147 --> 00:22:08.528
Yeah, yeah, and exactly it's the.
00:22:08.528 --> 00:22:09.609
I drink your milkshake.
00:22:09.609 --> 00:22:11.592
And in that scene you'd say who's the bad guy?
00:22:11.592 --> 00:22:12.952
Oh, he is Like he's bad.
00:22:12.952 --> 00:22:21.521
Is he though, but at the same time, I mean, he does bludgeon him with a bowling pin, but like yeah, his adopted son, not his adopted son.
00:22:21.542 --> 00:22:23.848
He bludgeons the corrupt preacher.
00:22:24.611 --> 00:22:27.105
Oh, yeah, yeah, Yep, yep.
00:22:27.105 --> 00:22:28.984
But just all that to say.
00:22:28.984 --> 00:23:07.342
I kind of have my own personal opinions and I can't even hardly get them out clearly because they're so in some ways convoluted or like sure, or just like I've spent so much time thinking through them but would be, um, both sides in their own right and in their own mind have legitimate claim, yep, and now it's like so, uh, gaza in in particular, we have a, they're kind of one of their.
00:23:07.342 --> 00:23:20.378
Their ruling government was Hamas and they attacked and then they got the poop kicked out of them, this time big time, more than ever in the past.
00:23:21.260 --> 00:23:23.124
Um and Hamas.
00:23:23.124 --> 00:23:30.798
Who's responsible for the um, the civilian deaths, the women, women, children, the displacement?
00:23:30.798 --> 00:23:42.691
Well, hamas has to accept their hand in what they did to their own people.
00:23:42.932 --> 00:23:43.071
Yep.
00:23:43.375 --> 00:23:45.282
They made a decision.
00:23:45.282 --> 00:23:50.646
They didn't do it good enough to get the milkshake from the other guy.
00:23:50.646 --> 00:23:58.651
And now the other guy came in and just threw their milkshake against a dumpster they just like they didn't even.
00:23:58.651 --> 00:24:01.218
They didn't even steal the milkshake, they just crushed it.
00:24:01.218 --> 00:24:07.148
So israel also has um as a government has um.
00:24:08.938 --> 00:24:26.346
You know their own part to play, and so so does Hamas, and so it's just like it's like if I throw rocks at your house and then turn around and run into mine, I should not be surprised if you throw rocks through my window.
00:24:26.346 --> 00:24:30.424
I might, depending on how much I've upset you.
00:24:30.424 --> 00:24:30.655
Like.
00:24:30.655 --> 00:24:34.335
Let's say, I threw a rock and it went through your window and hit your kid or something right.
00:24:35.242 --> 00:24:41.521
I shouldn't be surprised if you're kicking in my door right, and that's what the hard people a lot of people would say to like the Hamas have to be like.
00:24:41.521 --> 00:24:45.123
Well, I threw rocks at your window and then you drove through my house with a bulldozer.
00:24:45.123 --> 00:24:45.872
Yeah, it's like.
00:24:45.913 --> 00:24:47.138
Yeah because I'm sick.
00:24:47.138 --> 00:24:48.083
It wasn't like.
00:24:48.083 --> 00:24:51.967
It's like you threw a rock through my window and it killed my dog.
00:24:51.967 --> 00:25:01.579
I'm driving a bulldozer through your house because you'll never live here again and you'll never be able to kill my next dog right, that's a simplification.
00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:11.642
I'm sure there's not a lot of people who like me referring to them as dogs um, yeah, no, but yeah, and so I think that the um it is like it's a matter of perspective.
00:25:11.642 --> 00:25:22.511
From a 30,000 foot view, I think it's not that difficult, but if we get into the lives of individuals it gets very rough, very fast.
00:25:22.832 --> 00:25:26.836
It is and I agree with that wholeheartedly.
00:25:26.836 --> 00:25:35.436
And I will say, you know, mick's personal opinion is that you know, if I was sitting with two individuals, right it would be.
00:25:35.436 --> 00:25:37.961
I think you both have valid claims to here.
00:25:37.961 --> 00:25:43.199
Both of you have valid claims to this to be to be here.
00:25:43.942 --> 00:25:50.618
I'm not going to say like to own it, I'm not going to say to build it or destroy it or you know whatever.
00:25:50.618 --> 00:25:59.940
But I'm going to say you both have valid reasons to be present in this space and, and like you know, occupying it.
00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:05.650
If you can't agree on that, then you need to figure it out.
00:26:05.650 --> 00:26:09.279
That and like and it's not like you need to, I'm telling you you need to.
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:29.189
It's like that's just the natural result and I, I would prefer it if they could just accept and shake hands and be like yeah, we both have real reasons to be here, you do your thing, I'll do mine, uh, but I know that's like incredibly over simple, right, right.
00:26:29.234 --> 00:26:29.997
Because then, is that a?
00:26:29.997 --> 00:26:32.903
Is that a two-state solution with a line down the middle?
00:26:32.903 --> 00:26:36.251
And you look inside that side versus, like I don't think, every other house.
00:26:36.393 --> 00:27:02.939
I always, I always thought that was ridiculous I always thought there should just be one block of land and let it be a, you know, democratic representation right um and I I agree from an american perspective, being that like because we've got a road, we've, we are not um we don't decide who gets to live in one house, based on Democrat, republican or Christian Muslim or or something you don't even get to pick.
00:27:03.760 --> 00:27:26.532
You know, like, like Italian, or you know if you're we don't do that anymore, right, we used to, right, yeah, but so, like in this case, the hard part here is to where, to the, let's say, somebody, like some big mediator, comes in like America, and says, all right, you two play nice, you know, get along, coexist together.
00:27:26.553 --> 00:28:01.455
Yeah, the hard thing is there's people working on both sides whose ultimate goal is to see the other group annihilated, you know, and um, and so in this case, because of power, wise, I'd say, if the, if the tides were turned in a lot of ways too, uh, if the, if the, if the, yeah, if the scripts were flipped on like who had the power in the population, it would be the same thing going on, except people would be like, you know, uh, college liberals would be, uh, waving a flag about free israel.
00:28:01.455 --> 00:28:19.433
Um, but, um, the, the power, what I, what's scary for me, is the, the powerful player is israel, and today, today, and they will like it.
00:28:19.433 --> 00:28:22.459
If the thing was all right, everybody, play nice, live together.
00:28:22.459 --> 00:28:41.922
Still, in 50 years from now, there would be less gazans, less palestinians, less ara, less Arabs living there through many different means, because there is an agenda and an ultimate goal to you know, to have it and for.
00:28:42.394 --> 00:28:43.539
Israel to be a Jewish state.
00:28:43.539 --> 00:28:49.105
I mean you cannot be a citizen in Israel without being Jewish.
00:28:49.105 --> 00:29:02.906
Without being Jewish in a lot of ways, as far as there are some exceptions, but by and large, it's your blood in your veins and so that's where, from the American perspective, we're like wait blood in your veins.
00:29:02.906 --> 00:29:10.666
We've kind of moved past a lot of that, but for them, and for Palestinians, or Arabs too, this is still a very strong thing.
00:29:12.355 --> 00:29:17.019
Yeah, and that's what I was going to say is like the big difference is like, yes, we have what we think should happen.
00:29:17.019 --> 00:29:18.222
Right, we have what we prefer.
00:29:18.222 --> 00:29:21.222
Like hey, you two both have equal claims, get along.
00:29:21.222 --> 00:29:23.742
And if you can't get along, figure it out, sort it out.
00:29:23.742 --> 00:29:35.131
The issue with that is that they're like Israel is is a religious government, just like a lot of the other nations are Muslim government governments of Islam.
00:29:35.131 --> 00:29:36.395
Right, it's so.
00:29:36.395 --> 00:30:00.221
Like the fact that it's a Jewish government and Palestine is a Muslim government Essentially, I think, kind of means like the real solution is both of them being dismantled into a non-religious, separated government to take in this place, which I don't think that's our job either.
00:30:00.884 --> 00:30:05.265
Right, I'll say that like it's one of those things like where I don't think we have any role in it.
00:30:05.265 --> 00:30:15.506
Now, I do think like I've heard the argument of like, well, you know, the Biden admin sent an insane amount of weapons and money over there to Israel.
00:30:15.506 --> 00:30:18.464
Those weapons and that money was put to use to level Gaza.
00:30:18.464 --> 00:30:25.087
So maybe we do have some responsibility to rebuild the buildings and offer aid and assistance.
00:30:25.087 --> 00:30:26.579
And I was like you know what.
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:30.083
I'm not even going to argue against that.
00:30:30.083 --> 00:30:37.048
I kind of think, like I'll be honest, if, like US, bombs were flying over, let's flip around.
00:30:37.229 --> 00:30:37.409
Yeah.
00:30:37.474 --> 00:30:48.443
Let's say, if you know, russia gave some bombs to Mexico and Mexico was like yeah, we're going to use these on the US and we were the ones that provoked the war with Mexico.
00:30:48.443 --> 00:30:54.146
And then Russia was like, shit, those bombs really worked and wrecked the us quite a bit.
00:30:54.146 --> 00:30:59.086
Hey, us, we feel kind of bad that we we did that and they just annihilated you.
00:30:59.086 --> 00:31:01.703
We'd like to offer some aid relief.
00:31:01.703 --> 00:31:06.676
I'd be like, yeah, you better kind of pay up because you kind of have a little bit of liability here.
00:31:06.676 --> 00:31:18.769
So I don't know, I I don't think it's our responsibility, but I can see where it's perhaps the right thing to do to offer that support.
00:31:19.751 --> 00:31:24.527
Right, the hard thing are we supporting it or are we enforcing it?
00:31:24.527 --> 00:31:29.224
Or are we like coming in and now it's like we're taking both your milkshakes.
00:31:29.365 --> 00:31:30.868
Yeah, you know what I mean, yeah.
00:31:31.419 --> 00:31:35.900
From a standpoint of, you know, america saying all right, we're taking over gaza.
00:31:35.900 --> 00:31:41.656
Uh, gossans, you couldn't get your crap together, and israel, you couldn't handle this either.
00:31:41.656 --> 00:31:45.506
So it's sit down you know, yeah, everybody sit down.
00:31:45.526 --> 00:31:55.261
We're gonna come take care of this now and, uh, profit, you know yeah, you know, and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that's at all what plays out, because we don't have a religious government.
00:31:55.261 --> 00:31:58.617
Our government's not a christian government, and I don't think it should be either.
00:31:58.617 --> 00:32:00.643
I don't want a christian state.
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