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Imagine standing before the complex web of COVID-19 debates, a tapestry woven with threads of science, politics, and personal health choices. We pull on those threads in today's episode, unraveling the myths and realities of vaccines, the efficacy of masks, and the perplexing six-foot social distancing rule. Entangled in this discourse is a sobering look at how politicization shapes our views, with a special spotlight on statistical data that challenges the concrete benefits of mask mandates.
Switching gears, our journey takes us through the winding streets of San Francisco politics, down the rabbit hole of municipal votes on international affairs. Tying it all together is a personal narrative of anxiety and suspicion, from the pews of a church to the most mundane of settings, illustrating how our daily lives are stages for the larger social dynamics at play.
Clenching our fists in anticipation, we examine the adrenaline-filled moments of confronting potential threats and the aftermath of such encounters. Pat shares how the prospect of new life shifts his perspective on protection and duty, opening a window into the profound changes that personal milestones can bring to our sense of responsibility. As we reminisce about the carefree days of childhood summers, we ponder if it's possible to recapture that lightness, despite the ever-growing weight of adult responsibilities. Join us for an episode that weaves through the personal and the public, holding a mirror to the world we navigate and the selves we become within it.
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00:49 - COVID Vaccine Controversies and Mask Debates
17:14 - San Francisco City Council Voting Discussion
24:20 - Concerns and Privilege in Society
34:31 - Observations and Interaction With Suspicious Individual
41:07 - Handling Concerns and Improving Communication
44:53 - Addressing Gut Feelings in Security Situations
50:48 - Physical Responses to High-Stress Situations
57:31 - Shifting Perspectives on Responsibility and Protection
01:09:05 - Yearning for a Summer Break
Have you seen how much is coming about the COVID vaccine lately? Like no. I mean, I've seen one about the insane metrics of like its connection to essentially cancer, heart disease deaths and middle-aged adults. And then, like some like virologists are breaking down how they were taking and they essentially illegally acquired COVID vaccines. People sent them to them off the records for them to study because they're like hey, we don't know what's in this. Everyone's telling us we need to administer it, like they good, illegally stole it. Yeah, like they didn't illegally stole it, but it was illegally sent to them. And they were they're saying like reports coming out, like yeah, when I examined it, I advised everyone in my classes to not take the vaccine. I got suspended from school because when I looked at them, 50% of the vaccines were essentially just saline. Really Just nothing. And the other 50% were something I've never seen before and it looked like a hybridization between, like, organic cellular and synthetic cellular level. And people are like losing their minds at this as like more and more of this is coming out Because you know, now it's like, now it's like you're not getting an assassin. You know your career is not getting assassinated for being a whistleblower or you were whistleblower and your career is already boned.
Speaker 2:Let's go. Let's screw it, dude.
Speaker 1:But isn't that bonkers dude, like I guess I don't know. I say, isn't that bonkers? Not knowing how much has kind of shown up in yours versus mine, but I just I've been following along with more and more that comes out, the vitamin D suppression. I don't know if you've seen that, but like how so many people were essentially suppressing, like vitamin D's use for COVID and it turns out that the best treatment for COVID is just high levels of vitamin D, like, without a doubt, better than the vaccine.
Speaker 2:Kind of like how Fauci just came out with like the six foot thing was made up. Have you seen that too? They're like the six foot thing. It just kind of started. We let it happen.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, the that and the mask dude. A lot of people don't remember, but the mask was a vitamin D. Guys don't use it, so we have enough for the hospitals. And then it became a whole like no, everybody needs it. Oh, it doesn't matter what the fuck it's made out of. Yeah, just wear it and it's just like oh, but it kind of doesn't matter. Now you need a double mask it and it's just like and then all the results, like all the evidence right now and I say this as someone, okay, I say this as someone who, in my personal life, I don't know anyone else who knows statistics and like the formulas and logic behind mathematical formulas for statistics better than I do- I literally can't think of one person in my personal sphere. I know coworkers a mind who? Are better and more experienced.
Speaker 2:You're not saying there's not, you're just saying like, generally, this is your area, this is my thing.
Speaker 1:And what I know is that all of our statistics indicate no significant difference between mask and unmasked and that masking likely hurt people. Masking likely gave people respiratory infections, because you already have a huge population in America that doesn't take care of their physical health when it requires anything that is a modicum of an interruption in their life and that's not political bro.
Speaker 2:That's just what it is.
Speaker 1:There's people rolling around in electric scooters that could use their legs on both sides of political parties, you know what I mean and those people will wear a mask and not wash it, not clean it, not get up and do some exercise for the sake of convenience in their life. And those people are the ones who got respiratory infections from breathing through the same fabric day in and day out in their porter house that has literal poop particles from cats floating in the air Right.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like it's like it's just one of those things of like it did more harm, like we can see the numbers now. It's not going to take us a decade. We can easily see mask hurt the health of America rather than benefit. Now, I'm not saying it doesn't matter, like you know, especially if you're around a highly infected population with a highly vulnerable, vulnerable population in closed quarters. Yes, it makes 100 percent sense to take precautions, just like if you're working in an old home with lead paint and asbestos, or if you're conducting a surgery, or if you're conducting a surgery right, like anything like that, like there is logic to wearing it.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you just now you just offended everybody, just the whole, both side, just both side of people. Like the thing is is like you go ahead with common sense, right?
Speaker 1:I'm not even speaking with common sense. I'm speaking with something that, like I, I through blood, sweat and tears. I learned, uh, I learned how to. I learned the significance of a p value when understanding a statistical significance right and standard deviation. Right and like I'm using those terms because those are like simple things people have heard about they might not understand, right? Mm hmm, I know that stuff better than most people and it's so it's really hard for me to like, actually it's not hard for me. Yeah, it takes no effort for me to not care of your opinion. Mm hmm, if you don't understand statistics, right, because regardless of how you feel or what you think politically, or what you've read online as an article, mm hmm, you don't know the math, yeah, and I do, and like, don't get me wrong, there's, of course. I think it's very true. If the famous quote about statistics is.
Speaker 2:You know, 85% of all statistics are made up.
Speaker 1:Well, there's that one which I'm sure is more. That's a fake, but it's like you know. Whatever you want the statistics to say, you know, let me know and we can twist it that way. Um, and it's like you can always do that with however you portray the numbers. Right Mm hmm, but if you know how to do a study of significance in numerical values and comparison between two different types of records, then you can. You can do the math and you can understand and translate like the relation, correlation, causation effects between the two Um and you can see like what the numbers really tell before there's any manipulation.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, make. You're making too much sense. This is why you're offending both sides of it, cause it's like meaning, just like people are, just like the anti-maskers and the triple maskers are like there can be no middle ground. I'll tell you this there can be no acceptable.
Speaker 1:Tell you, statistically, wearing a mask 24 seven will have worse effects on your health as an average American than COVID yeah, not wearing a mask while being someone of the vulnerable population around others who have any kind of illness, flu, covid, bronchitis In here's where I get out of my debt. I'm not a virologist so I don't know or bit, or like you know someone who studies disease pathogens so I might say disease here. You know, listening it off, it's not bad. Well, I mean, actually that doesn't spread through aerial transmission.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, cancer, yeah, gayness, you know, you know just whatever you just get way out there. Yeah, uh mask it up.
Speaker 1:Anyways, what I'm saying is like it, statistically we saw yes, mask and wearing mask indoors with highly populated areas reduce the rate of COVID. Does dick all when you go outside? Does dick all when you're alone in your car? Okay, oh yeah. There is one thing, though I did actually feel and I want to say this because I feel like you'll kind of Feel the same way Mm-hmm, I Talked to someone who was a friend of mine, who Did uber and lift During the pandemic and all that when you weren't so really supposed to be doing it, but dudes got to make some money. Like it was like you know, lockdown orders, and it was like you shouldn't be in a car with anyone and they're like, yeah, I can't tell you how many times people made fun of me for driving in a car with a mask on and I'd be by myself. I was like, oh, that's me. Right, I don't think I ever made fun of someone like to get their attention and make fun of them. But in your heart, yeah, in my mind, in my heart, I would see people wearing a mask by themselves in the car, like you dork. But then I realized I was like how they could be rideshare stuff, like my friend was, and I was like that's dumb. I should have like I don't know, maybe they are, do right share.
Speaker 2:There's two sides every story. There's always an exception.
Speaker 1:Tell me this, pat someone gets in your car. They're coughing, they look sneezy and nasty, it's not. You're not even thinking. If it's COVID, you're just like. I don't want that. What did you probably put a mask on if you're doing that all day? Oh yeah, I'm like just strangers in your car. I think it's not a bad idea, yeah, yeah. So that's why I kind of reassessed my like and you know how quickly I make fun of people and you know the next person who you might be taking.
Speaker 2:The first person you take has the flu. Not a big deal if you get the flu, that's okay. Yeah, next person you take grandma. You're taking grandma to her with the, with her lungs out of commission, to her bingo, her bingo appointment. Yeah, you know, it's like yeah, I feel that for real, yeah, so anyways all, I said, I'll still kind of, I'll still always lean towards make fun first and then I'll consider always big but a people wearing mask outside.
Speaker 1:I will always make like. I'm not talking just like outside your house. I'm talking like out at the park wearing a mask Mm-hmm, especially where we live, where it's like so much like fresh air nature or freaking yeah. Yeah if you're wearing a mask and you're walking through New York City, fine, I mean you could even say that's smog, right, whatever right you know you're looking after your own health and someone else's health to Subway, sure that's an? I don't think of that as outside, mm-hmm, a bro, you freaking at the On a hiking trail wearing a mask. I like if I in my heart of hearts I'm thinking you, dork, you're making it harder on yourself. But anyways, one person I've been trying to say this for five minutes but I keep on getting distracted one dude I really encourage everyone to check out is Is a this doctor on YouTube. He uploads, I think, daily, if not for sure, weekly. But his name is give me a moment, because I have to find him and I was trying. I thought I'd find him a lot quicker than that, but this is someone I followed during COVID, who was very conservative and any accusation over what was coming out. His name is dr John Campbell. Dr John Campbell. I'm gonna say it again dr John Campbell for anyone who is interested in looking him up. He's got almost 3 million subscribers. Most of his fame, I think, occurred during COVID and A lot of it was just based off of like what? What he does is he just takes the documents, the released papers, the released documents, and he just goes through them and Highlights them and he breaks it down to a normal audience what some of this medical jargon might be. But he's actual Virologist, I believe, based in either Australia or the UK. So here we go, read off his description, and I can't tell you how much this guy has informed me about stuff and how much medical stuff I make based off of his analysis, because he never tells you what to do. He breaks it down, he gives you thorough, like Experience, scientific information based off of what he's reading, what his concerns might be, what is, what is what isn't concerning to him, and Then he tells you, like you know, as always, I want you to make the most informed decision. Mm-hmm, and that's why I love him, because he's just not political about it all. But he says hello everyone. My name is John Campbell. I'm a retired, a nurse, teacher and any nurse based in England. Guess who's based in England? I also do some teaching in Asia and Africa when time permits. These videos are to help students to learn the background to all forms of health Care. My PhD focused on the development of open learning resources for nurses nationally and internationally. And then he has a disclaimer here with some LinkedIn pages and all that. That. All of his videos are intended for an educational purpose, but one of the best things he's been doing recently is interviewing doctors across the globe from, you know, especially primarily in Europe or like more European nations, where he's going through them like what does the science actually say? Where have they seen like, like non factual claims about COVID or things like that, and you know, what did they kind of go through? And so he had one With a. Let me scroll through here. I don't know if he has the doctor's name listed, but he goes through one where he just went through, essentially like all of the COVID myths. Hmm, from both Political sides. Right, mask don't have any effect, mask are the other. Perfect result the vaccine has no effect, the vaccine is perfect. You know, all that stuff Went through what is known as like the death of science, where he you know is interviewing someone he's going over essentially like how Fauci started out, pretty much like no guys, look mask, aren't gonna help you with COVID, don't go around, mask it up. It was based in science but then it became so politically charged that Fauci just used it as a point to leverage himself politically and it backfired. As Most of these things do, when the hard science comes out and the real scientists start speaking out, he interviews quite a few people or follows them on social media and elaborates on, like essentially, a lot of the medical jargon that might be Not very common for most people, and one of them that he just recently did was how this doctor in England essentially said I will, from here on out, not be administering Pfizer Boosters or the COVID vaccine to any of my patients based off of our latest study of the vaccine, and like Wasn't a political post, it was legitimately. Legitimately, this doctor had a medical concern on the vaccine, went through it and Dr John Campbell breaks it down like what is his medical concern and like a layman's opinion, and honestly, he does a lot of great stuff where he breaks down like outside of COVID, trending illness, trending health crisis, trending diseases that are just like I find very informational, you know If it's just like a white paper report on like a rising level of cancer among adults aged 41 to 65, what type of cancer men and women, both, whatever and he just breaks it down. So he's a very informative man. He's a big fan of vitamins. He says take your vitamins vitamin a, b, c and d, get your dosages of all of them because they really help, you know, primarily fight off most diseases and illnesses. But all that said, dr John can. We'll check him out. I love him. I've been following him since 2020 when COVID broke out. He was like one of the first dudes I found on YouTube that I was like okay, this guy seems to be cutting through it. Mm-hmm, he's not making any political statements, he's got access to white papers, he's got access to reports. Mm-hmm, he's just helping me understand it and track right. So, anyways, highly recommend people check him out. Pat, I'm sending you a link to his channel now Just so you can kind of see his videos and I want to check him out for sure, because the we need more of that, because there's just been, on both sides of everything, people just so fully.
Speaker 2:So political and then play politicize, everything's politicized and everything's. You have to follow everything with just religious fervor you know to it and so, which I just sent. I sent you a video I want you to watch right now. It's a little clip, it's a nine-second clip of these people cheering and, surprisingly, they're not. They're all wearing masks. It's in the year 2023.
Speaker 1:San Francisco and celebrate after the city council votes eight to three in favor of ceasefire in Israel. So they vote in favor of something that will not have any effect on the actual problem.
Speaker 2:So, yes, here's a video. It's just people cheering in this, like city council, courtroom type place and Council room, and they're all cheering because they've just passed San Francisco. Way to go. You guys are the peacekeepers and peacemakers of the world.
Speaker 1:You have just Single-handedly stopped World War three and stopped apartheid and genocide play the videos of people can hear it.
Speaker 2:They can hear this. What are they saying? I'm saying they're saying free Palestine, free, free Palestine, which you know.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of people there were in shirts to say Jews say ceasefire, Now yep, and I'm wondering are they Jewish?
Speaker 2:I don't know, but some of them are definitely of the of the flavor that would be killed by Hamas, judging by just everyone in there specifically the, you know, the Homosexuals, transvestites. Just telling you Hamas, not a fan of you. Ever we can't say transvestite anymore. Oh crap, you're right, it's trans, trans transgenders, right, right, yes, all you transvestites. Is that? It's all you trans transgenders. I can't get a guy.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry twice. Hey, look, look, look, whether you're a trans or not. I want you to know, pat. Pat and I are happy to you know, say you're welcome at the table and all that, but Mm-hmm, he pats. It's hard to root it out of them, it's true.
Speaker 2:It's not a bias thing.
Speaker 1:It's just a language thing, just a. Yeah, we all used to say transvestite, which I don't know why.
Speaker 2:It's politically incorrect now, because that was the correct thing to say, that was the word. And now.
Speaker 1:It's not, it was and it was always not okay to say tranny, like tranny was always the same way, is on insult on the no-go.
Speaker 2:Yeah all right, but anyways all right. So the anyways, I think people, you got to look up this video. Just look up San Francisco City Council votes ceasefire.
Speaker 1:It is Astonishing that these people and that clapping is the son of them patting themselves on the back.
Speaker 2:They think they actually they're celebrating like they actually just passed for peace in this world, and I'm like I I am. When I saw this, I thought to myself how do I share a planet With people who think this way? And not that I'm not against a ceasefire on either side. I'm not against. I think I'm pro ceasefire. I'm Right, and on both sides.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm pro. No more, no more, no more.
Speaker 2:Men, women, children dying exactly on both sides of the whole thing. Right, so, yeah, like pro peace, but how arrogant Do you have to be To think that you actually just moved the ball forward for somebody, that, on the literally the other side of the globe, 30 of you got in a room and and and passed a vote? I mean, it's truly just like I I can't even Explain what I'm thinking or feeling, because I just feel like everybody should feel the way I feel, which is how probably everybody in the World feels, like everybody should feel the way they feel. But am I wrong? Am I wrong to feel this way?
Speaker 1:No, no, you're not. And but I mean like it's one of those things of like, when's the last time, pat, you went to a big city? Was last time like you went to like let's just say, mm-hmm, you know Denver, right, it's rare. It's rare, right to like and I'm not just like driving through or grabbing lunch.
Speaker 2:I'm talking like been a spend, a part of it spender one 24-hour period down there.
Speaker 1:I Most of these big cities are so far removed and just it's weird when you think about, like the term in cell mm-hmm you know it's like in cell, this inwardly focused, Egotistical individual who blames all their problems on someone else, mm-hmm. Well, these cities are like it, their in cells, dude like they like it's like crazy when, when you see, like stuff like this, like, is that directly harmful what they're doing? I Don't think so, right, I mean you could extrapolate it is it ridiculously arrogant and unaware of the reality of a situation? Absolutely oh absolutely On another planet, removed from reality of what is going on in the Middle East. Right, and To think anyone on either side gives a damn what the San Francisco City votes for. I Mean they, you know what. I'll say this if they voted the opposite direction, maybe some people would that be news. If Sam, if the San Francisco City Council voted no ceasefire. It needs to be absolute, like extermination, one side or the other, we don't care who wins, but the other one side needs to be gone right and what I want to know is I mean, that'd be new, that'd be like oh okay, like whoa guys, what's going on here?
Speaker 2:and the city council was torn. There were three people who didn't vote.
Speaker 1:It was a two, three. There's three people who didn't vote yet, like yes, we approve of a ceasefire. Three people who are like nah man.
Speaker 2:War. What they're voting for is that Israel has a right to defend itself yeah, from the aboriginal attack. But just meaning like did these, did those three people have to just commit like political suicide just to stand on their Values? Where those three people like this is ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Don't be honest. It feels like political. Honestly, it just feels like literal suicide. To live in San Francisco Is fall maybe that's their way of getting out there's like we gotta get out of here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right. So, like the only people who have any like, uh, any rational thinking, they had to, uh there's like I got to stand on my my uh, with my convictions and say no to this because this is just silly. Like they were, like I didn't even show up to they're probably I didn't even show up to the vote because like yeah. This is a waste of like maybe we should work on getting poop off the sidewalks and fixing, like our transient, you know, like population.
Speaker 1:Instead of trying to fix something on the other side of the world um, I get it in anxiety, hmm, lately Around what I feel is like a fleeting feeling, hmm, and I think the feeling that I, like I'm afraid is fleeting, is Just the ability for, or is it's the emotion I feel when I have not a care in the world, hmm, like being in a conversation with people, regardless of whether or not you agree. That conversation could be everything. That conversation can literally be Everything. Your brain is focused on in that moment. Mm-hmm and nothing else exists outside of the discussion, and that, I think, is like a very real Excuse me, and I don't I don't say privilege, for the sake of, you know, sophistication, mm-hmm. I do think that is a privilege, mm-hmm, like, that is the privilege of a world where A lot of necessities are already Handled for you, mm-hmm, and you can lose yourself in something that has no bearing on survival, because it is more like, because societal stuff is now More important than a survival Mm-hmm, right, and so the societal interaction of an individual with a group or an individual with another individual Takes more precedence in your mind than the concern of, like, getting fresh water right, and not that I think we're gonna run out of fresh water anytime soon here in America, mm-hmm. But I do have this feeling as I'm growing older, especially in the last year, where my concerns are starting to make it harder to engage. Hmm, it's starting to. It's starting to become harder to suspend the concerns over what I would rule as things I never worried about, mm-hmm, and I think a lot of that I've seen in my day-to-day life Of concerns over the behavior of individuals in public settings, like I remember my wife and I we just went, uh, billy June and I just went and got our eyes, uh an eye exam done. The eye exam, uh, clinic rents out a space, uh, in a Walmart, mm-hmm. And for some reason I cannot get over the anxiety and concern of like A shooter, really, yeah, and I don't know why. But I was just thinking in my head of like and I know I I'm often assessing situations of like how would I respond? How would I get to Billy Jean, things like that? But dude, that whole day we were there she was grabbing stuff, shopping around in Walmart a little bit while I was getting my eye exam done and then when she came To do hers, I took the car and Uh checked out and took things out to the car, mm-hmm. But the whole time I was just like how would I find her? How would I navigate? Where do I think she would be based off of, like what our shopping list was, mm-hmm, and all I said. It was just very strange. I also think it might be high end because recently at our church I had a very Like intense concern over an individual and it wasn't, and I think the reason it was so intense was because it was like so many different red flags and their individual turned out to be a totally fine guy, um, but and he understood when I broke it down to him my concern. Did I tell you this? Do you know this? What happened?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I kind of I don't think you were there that sunday. No, I don't know this. All right, I'm gonna break it down. All right. All right, I'm gonna try to break it down. Is not my thought. I'm just gonna try to give you the signs. Mm-hmm, okay, all right, running through my brain making sure I don't say anyone's name. Um, making sure I'm thinking through name character, all right. So, pat, uh, I was doing our care team, our security team. We call it care team because that's a softer name than security team. Right, we don't want people to think we think we don't want the congregation to think that we think we're a swat guys. We want the congregation to think of us as, oh, there for there. They are there for anything I need, whether it's prayer, whether it's assistance with Finding something, whether it's a place to sit, mm-hmm, someone to talk to when the bathroom is, whatever. We want people, we want the body to think of us. Is that? Uh, we are primarily there to be eyes and look out for stuff, but we we're, we also want to fulfill anything, any other need of the body. Um, and A good dude who I really appreciate In respect, was out front of the church running our he was at he was at his post and outside of the front doors, the pit bull and, uh, someone came up to him After service had started and said hey, can I go in through the side door or leave through the side door? And uh, this guy in our team said no, it's locked. Let me, let me double check. Was it two gun lanny, two gun Lenny?
Speaker 2:don't know who that is.
Speaker 1:That nickname is not the nickname I give them.
Speaker 2:Oh, what nickname do you give them, uh?
Speaker 1:I, I don't have a nickname for him, I just call him and, uh, it's weird because his name is the name nickname of someone else we've had on the show. I'm gonna call.
Speaker 2:I was just because I got it. You know who.
Speaker 1:It is Okay, you figured out, deduce some deduction. So uh, I'm gonna call him plum. I'm gonna call him plum. Plum comes up to me and says hey, just wondering. This guy came in, came up to me outside asking about our side doors and if he could go into them or out or exit through them or if we live in a locked. I was like, oh yeah, I've had a couple people ask me that before too. You know, I just tell them like we leave them locked from the outside so people can't just get in, but we leave them unlocked from the inside so people can get out in case of an emergency. He was like, yeah, I think he wanted to go in through them because for find a seat or something. I was like, all right, well, if anyone ever says that, I just usually offer to help them find a seat. So that way it's not like as intimidating as a first-time comer or something. He's all right, cool, no worries then. Uh, I'll call this One. Uh, sarai, a biblical Abraham's wife, sarai approached me and Sarai had a camera, I'm sorry a picture on her phone of an individual sitting on the upper mezz of our church balcony. She said hey, it's not just me, but a couple of people have noticed this guy. Mm-hmm, this posture, this fidgeting, just kind of in. None of us recognize him. When he came in late I was like oh huh, and I looked at the picture and I was like, oh, dude, kind of looked a little like all black top, mm-hmm, kind of hiking pants which isn't that unusual um glasses and just Like a normal looking dude, but like it was the. It really was his look of an expression and his rigidness, mm-hmm, that to me just was like, hmm, he doesn't look comfortable.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And so I went in. I was gonna go in and I asked, I asked, our front door guy said hey, sarai showed me this picture. Mm-hmm, will you double check? That is that the guy who talked to you about the side exit. I got a text back and it was like yeah, that's the dude, mm-hmm. So then I went upstairs, the upper mezz, I saw him, lo and behold, guess who was sitting next to him? Billy, our guest. Oh, really from, yeah, billy and his wife and his daughter. Um, and so I was just sitting there, uh, up on the upper mezz, on these chairs that we have kind of towards the back corner to kind of Not intrude when we want to go and watch or listen to the sermon. Uh, my good buddy was uh out there. Uh, wayne's son was preaching and, um, I saw my wife, who was also in service, saw Billy Jean, and Billy Jean immediately saw me and knew by my body language. Shit was not cool and I'm watching this guy and I'm gonna try to describe as best as I can on the mic. But, pat, he's sitting there, not using the back of the bench, knees, like I mean his old, his old posture, is very much in a position of like about ready to stand up, mm-hmm, not reclining, um, and like our pews Are kind of angled so you naturally slide back against the back of the pew, mm-hmm. So for him not be using the back was weird. But then he had his hands on his thighs with his thumbs wrapped in his fingers, like he was squeezing his thumbs, mm-hmm, and he would kind of be squeezing that and rubbing his Knuckles on his thighs up to his knees, mm-hmm, then pulling the back and keep running. And then he would reach into his he was wearing a black hoodie, mm-hmm reach into his hoodie pockets and kind of fidget around a little bit, mm-hmm. And then he would do this thing where every once in a while he would just Like stand up to like almost a squat, uh-huh, very rigid straight back posture, like he was kind of sitting up enough to see down below Mm-hmm, and then he'd go back to sitting, but not let his back touch the bench and everything said, just scoping out what's going on. No bible no bible, no phone, out, mm-hmm, nothing. Nothing to show that he would like he is engaging that he's engaging or he's gotten comfortable. You know, most people 95 of the people have a bible or a phone out or a coffee, mm-hmm, and they're sitting there and they're engaged with something or just staring off, like just staring off is good, but they're in a, they're in a posture, that they're in a posture that if they were disrupted they would probably forget something, right, and that's, like usually a sign I think that's indicative of like relaxed, comfort, not agitated, not observant, right, mm-hmm? like if you set stuff down, if you pull your phone out and set it down on your leg, your. That immediately tells me like your posture is not one of readiness, right, your posture is one of like relaxed, your you plan on sitting for a while, mm-hmm. If you're fidgeting around and not even using the back of a pew and keep on kind of standing up a little bit to look around, mm-hmm, that tells me you're ready to leave real quick, mm-hmm. And so, all that said, just watch them for about 20 minutes. And it got to the point that I think he unsettled Billy's wife. I didn't specifically ask her, but she got up with their daughter and took her out and then she came back and Sat down and I typed out on my phone hey, this guy come in late and has he? Like you know, like I just asked if he had gotten into service late and she said I Don't know, I wasn't really paying attention, but you know that that's just kind of like all she can mouth to me quietly, mm-hmm. And so after enough time, I was like, all right, cool, the sermon is about to end and I know after the sermon it goes into worship. Mm-hmm, I'm sure Wayne's son here is going to Lead people in prayer before worship. And so as soon as he started saying, go ahead, bow your heads and pray with me before we go into a ton of worship, I walked up Behind the pew To Billy and I said hey, billy, what's? up man, how you doing. He's like oh, what's up. This was before he was on the podcast, mm-hmm, it was after him and I just met. And then I turned to the guy next to him they had about a person space between him and said hey, man, what's your name? Gave me his name. It's like Look, I'm with the church Security team and I just want to ask you a couple questions. Would you be willing to come with me? Hmm and he said Okay, sure, and I said you're not in trouble, mm-hmm, I just for the for the sake of you, know the congregation and safety, I just need to ask you a couple questions, mm-hmm. And he was like okay, and so we started moving. He gets up, climbs over the back of the pew and is falling behind me I'm trying to keep bladed to him so I don't just have my back to him, mm-hmm and I get to the door to go down the stairs and outside Mm-hmm, and outside the side door, I motion for him to go ahead of me, but he'd like freezes, like stiff, and I'm like I don't like that and I'm like we're just gonna go outside, man, we'll come right back inside. I just want to go outside so we don't disrupt anything. And he then he kind of unfreezes a little bit. He's like okay, nice, he seems a little reacts, hands outside of the pockets, and so then I start walking down the stairs, but I'm still walking down bladed to him, trying to like coax him. Mm-hmm like, very like. It was weird because I know one hand was coaxing him, the other hand was right underneath my flannel Mm-hmm, about to pull my flannel up so I could get at my piece. So I legit was wondering if he was gonna pull on me while while we were going down the stairs, but nothing happened, got him outside and just started like asking him some questions who he knows or you know why he might have wanted to come in through the side door, leave through the side door and anyways, he checked off everything. I found out. I asked him some false questions. Right of like. He said he had started going to like our young adults group, mm-hmm. I asked him who was that? Led by so-and-so, which was the wrong name, mm-hmm. He corrected me. Oh yeah okay, we got, we got some positive information here and everything turned out to be fine. He, he turns out he struggles from like Some severe headaches and the music actually upsets him and gives him the headaches, so he wanted to come in after worship. What's a sneak?
Speaker 2:out leave before worship and not disturb.
Speaker 1:And not disturb anyone, Right, right but and when I explained to him everything, he said you know what? And I after my said it Is there anything I did that you feel like I could have done better?
Speaker 2:Is there anything?
Speaker 1:I did that you feel like was insincere or inconsiderate or disruptive, because we want to be better at how we approach people and be considerate. And he's like you know, you know what, like you don't have anything to apologize for. You guys should never apologize for Taking, you know, the concern of the body of believers at heart and being aware of vigilant. I think you handle it Well. I think you approached me at an appropriate moment, so it was all cool. He handled it really well and I think he's been back since the holidays. But all I said, dude, it was pucker factor Four thousand. You said I'm just curious, like after I described that, how would you have done it? Because, yeah, to have two people kind of come to me with concern, one, our front door guy, who's very capable, and then another and then generally, unconcerned and generally.
Speaker 2:You know I'll be honest.
Speaker 1:If you put him in a lineup with people, I'd be most concerned about what he could do to me. He's a big, confident, athletic man. And and then, like you know, church leadership one of our female Staff members came up to me with picture and concern and like, can you do something? And so I'm just, like you know, there was a lot of flags there and I'm just wondering, like, where your thoughts are, because at since then, dude, I've actually been like on way more alert, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that I Nine hundred ninety nine thousand times out of ten thousand times it's gonna be, what it was, what it was right, but that one time is like Something that you want to address and I even back it up to, to say like If this, you know, the person is in here, even like the fact like they feel super uncomfortable. It's like they look like they don't feel like they want to be in the space.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, I Think I thought of it. Not saying this is the right way to think of it. Maybe they didn't want, maybe he didn't want to be there. I just thought of it as like they want to be ready to leave, right, right.
Speaker 2:And so I think that the we should probably approach everybody like that and just go like Not and not, not in a security concern, but it can, a concern for that individual to go hey, let's just have coffee and let me hear about your story, because You're not. You know, it seems like you're not getting much out of this, right, this isn't a. This is a isn't, isn't a place that's life-giving to you right now. So those nine hundred ninety nine thousand people in Times that happens, you can go have an awesome conversation with somebody, get to know them.
Speaker 1:Hmm.
Speaker 2:They're gonna. They're gonna come back again because they felt loved and cared for it, even like be acknowledged as an individual. You're gonna get some cool relationships out of it, and Somebody who's that jittery is actually probably just better suited for our team.
Speaker 1:Which is what I actually told him. That's like when I found out how well he handled my like what I pointed out oh, no cool, he was about it didn't take it personally, he was like I was like you know what man, that mentality and that kind of Like thinking would be a great asset to the team. So if you're ever interested, let me know. Given my number, I haven't heard from mm-hmm, so like I'm not worried about that really, but like it's just one of those things I was like and I told him was like you don't have to be cowboy John Wick, like that's not what we're looking for. Mm-hmm, most of the guys on our team don't carry. We just want people who you know are vigilant and looking for ways to serve and care for the body and mm-hmm. More people, I would say, are focused met on medical support than on like.
Speaker 2:Offensive response, right, definitely, and and and. Most people on our team can't sit through a service themselves. You know like that's, like that's where, yeah, we're jittery, we're getting up, like we're fixing our pants, we're like you know what I'm moving around and like. Anyways, as you know, I think it's funny because you're basically either describing Somebody who we want with us or we want to not with us, right? and so and I think that it's better to approach this like if you get that gut feeling, then you might as well approach it and deal with it. That gut feeling can turn into like a, a form of like, constant over analysis, and always like and like, almost like, bordering on like a paranoia thing. Mm-hmm if you don't, if you not careful. But I think that at the same time, in general, if someone's putting off 99% of convert of what is it? 99% of communications, nonverbal right, yeah, like if all, if 99% of this conversation you've just had with this person is, like, you know, unnerving, then what's the worst thing that could happen with it? The worst thing could happen, you know, in some ways would be like saying that in a sense of them not being somebody who is a threat, like you could really offend them, really hurt them, hurt their feelings. That could all happen, but that can all be like talked through and and then it's up to them to like receive it as they want and Acknowledge like the world we live in is one where we have to be kind of it. Unfortunately, we have to be vigilant of these things. And then, on the other side of it is like you, somebody who's serving in a security capacity, you just your job is to address those things and so just address it and Most of time it's gonna work out just fine. And and we've had, I've had a couple of situations too where you know your heart rate gets up and you're like you. You have to really work to not psych yourself into the False reality of what's actually going on and try to seek out with what is happening, but at the same time you just have to always keep that little little hair on the back. Your neck stood up just enough to be ready, and so you know, I think that it's always worth addressing and it sounds like you handled it well and the I think that it's. We had a really similar situation happen, like a Almost over a year ago now, but where, you know, we thought somebody Could have been dangerous and we just kind of straight up confronted them about it and it all worked out fine and I saw them at church, like just the other day. I get like they're still there. You know nice and it's a whole other story, but the it's why we're there and the point is to protect those that can't protect themselves. And here's the deal, our standard Up like a standard way that we start with a red flag, and it'll be this every time a Single dude who walks in by himself late to church. We're gonna watch you because, like I would expect that, like, honestly, a guy who looks like me walked into church too, like it's never been known and comes in late and is acting kind of weird. It's foolish to not pay attention. And even like, even, like I said before, not even to take it to the extreme, extreme far side of going oh, this person has a weapon they're gonna harm people just to even dial it all the way back to like this person doesn't feel connected here, this person doesn't feel comfortable here. This person, you know, needs to be addressed. And Upon addressing this person, then I can figure out what I'd need to do, all the way from offering him a coffee to friendship, to telling stories, to Putting them on the ground and tell them they got to leave. Like.
Speaker 1:The whole spectrum of how we can deal with it is by first addressing it and I think, like that's the biggest thing, is like being aware of, like you know, of course, how do I, how do I first address this? but, also I Will say like that that experience was probably the closest I felt in several years to like the need To pull my gun was gonna be quick, like it was coming very quickly, and I was very thankful I was wrong. But even after the service, billy's wife came up to me and she said I Just want to say thank you for what you guys do. Hmm, I was, and I was really weird because I never made another contact with her Mm-hmm, but to me that was like very high confirmation of like she was like oh my gosh, my Red flags are going off for him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, other people felt uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Which is like why, you know, billy Jean told me she's like I wonder if that's why she got up and took her daughter Mm-hmm and like took her daughter to the kids area, mm-hmm, because she was just concerned something was gonna happen. Mm-hmm, yeah, and it's really weird and I agree with everything you said. Like you gotta, you gotta, accept that feeling. You also got to approach them like the totally inappropriate response would have been to like be aggressive with that guy Mm-hmm, because he turned out to be, you know, totally fine, normal guy. But also, don't Shirk away from that gut feeling. You know, I've had that gut feeling with several people in the past where it turned out they were carrying a weapon. They were from best as we could tell from evidence, likely intending to do harm. Did they have? Did they get to do harm? Most often not, mm-hmm, I Never had to shoot anyone. I'm just gonna say that before anyone sends us that as a DM or a message or a comment, right, but where there times where I got close to shooting someone, yes, where there times where I tased people or got close to tasing people. Yeah, you know what I mean and it's like one of those things where, like you never really know, but like the gut feeling is the same every single time Mm-hmm. And like the way you, you think like wait a second, and like, subconsciously, your brain picks it all up. Mm-hmm, your brain. If you, I guess you know, if you practice, if you train, your brain picks it up. But like, whether or not you're aware of it, you start feeling like wait. Why am I eyes getting a little watery? Why is my breathing getting like quicker? deeper wise, my ears getting clogged, mm-hmm, jaw locking, tongue swelling, sweat palms. All of that happens because your body's, your brain, is registering the signs of hostility, mm-hmm. And like time is slowing down for you to make a reaction appropriately, mm-hmm. Now, a Lot of people don't see that, of course, because they're not, they don't think to look for those things. But like I will save, like this. It was a one of those examples where I was like holy shit, mm-hmm, this guy makes me think I'm gonna have to draw mm-hmm. Like just everything he's doing seems like a dude who's Zoned in, and I think a big thing was just the way he was looking at who was preaching that Sunday, uh-huh, I was like he's looking at him, like he's ready to Like, draw on, like a target in the fidgeting in the hoodie pocket, I was like what is in there, dude?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had a guy when we kept on like he sat in a very like advantageous strategic position, mm-hmm, and he's just well, that's how I thought too.
Speaker 1:I was like this dude can waste everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, before they get to the door got a backpack, all this stuff, and he's like keeps like messing with his backpack and keeps like messing around stuff and keeps like repositioning his backpack and keeps oh my god, what's he doing. And then like I'm, and I'm watching through like a crack in the door, and then he like Reaches in his backpack again and I'm like kind of ready to go through and he pulls out A bag of Doritos.
Speaker 1:Remember that guy. I think I was there this.
Speaker 2:I don't think I was working that Sunday, but I remember that Sunday he pops open a bag of Doritos and just start, and then leans back and starts eating it. Mm-hmm, and I just I just left. I was like this guy's fine.
Speaker 1:I think we're good.
Speaker 2:I was like. I was like this. I was like either, and this is so f'd up, but it just was like. I was like do you know how crazy you have to be To lean back comfortably and eat a bag of Doritos before you hurt people in church? Like you have to be like like yes, this guy could still be a threat, but like that would be absolutely insane. If you can lean back and comfortably eat Doritos before I'm like he's fine, yeah, we're not worrying about it, it's all right, he can use Doritos right before I slaughter, it's time for a snack.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'll give that blood sugar. I just was like this would be like so Psychotic on so many levels. It's like it's incomprehensible. Do it speaking of statistics Not happening true, very true.
Speaker 1:I would think like a lot of them feel the same way I do when, before anything intense, I'd have like zero appetite. Post the intensity I Could eat a horse. Hmm, like I mean, can't you remember like Right before you felt like you were gonna fight someone out of like anger?
Speaker 2:frustration or emotion or anything. Anything in life, that's high pressure. Yeah, anything, are you?
Speaker 1:hungry leading up to your first child being born.
Speaker 2:No, no hungry, for you know, it's funny, I always send. I sent a picture of a when we went to the hospital. I just sent a picture of like two Kansas in a Jaco go energy drink, I'm just like about time to do this. Yeah, but yeah, no, no hunger for sure. It's your game on you're. You're in the moment and so the. It is interesting how much the body reacts to those sorts of situations and like, and how different people react to like, a Like. It was it a. It was a. Who was it? Oh, it was Shane Gillis. It was like he's. Like. Every fight I've been in, I've cried, I cried.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just crying at it, dude. There's a reality, though, that I felt like a lot of kindred when he said that, because it wasn't up until, like, I Was at the sheriff department that. I stopped, like having watery eyes during a fight.
Speaker 2:Alterations.
Speaker 1:I still think to this day after in a fight, after a fight, I'll get watery eyes, mm-hmm. But, bro, like I think every single fight I got in in the high school or middle school, I had teary eyes during, just angry crying. It wasn't like sobbing or anything like that, but it was just. It was just like my, my body's, like fear, anxiety, stress, response was like watery, misty eyes, mm-hmm. And like, even if I won which, I'll be honest to my, torn to my horn, I won a lot Mm-hmm. Even if I won, dude, I looked like I cried, mm-hmm. Now, yeah, I probably got punched in the face and my eyes are probably watered from that, but like, I Legit think about that. When he said that, I was like, oh, I feel so validated Because, like, that is the emotion and I know a lot of guys who never have that. Like I know a lot of guys who like, did you know? not like pro MMA stuff, but like that you know, sparring, jiu-jitsu, mma at a gym and like they're like, yeah, I've never had that. I've never had my eyes get watery, unless I get bonked in the nose, mm-hmm, I'm like dude, I don't know what it is, but like going into like almost anything, even sparring. When I was doing a Jiu-Jitsu, like if it was, if it was just like practice never got the motion, like, never got the watery eyes. But if I was doing any like kind of Like actual one-on-one test of skill, mm-hmm, and I knew this dude was trying to beat me and I was trying to beat him, mm-hmm, and there's other, there's people around facilitating it, right, mm-hmm, I still like would get emotional. I got not well, not emotional my eyes, though the physical response would be that of emotion, right, the physical response would make you think I was crying, mm-hmm. Even if I had no like sadness or fear, I would get those misty eyes, mm-hmm. So I don't know I I've never really looked it up I wonder how many other people just like get that too.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people do like, even like when I've been in some like high-pressure, scary situations in life, like especially when I'm Responsible for others in that moment.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:There's no emotional response. Until the second, everything is until at the moment that I know everything's safe and okay, yeah, my body lets it go and I do like, in some of the times I do cry. I just like it just kind of start crying really. Yeah, like cuz I'll be like, I'll be pretty like With it, like making decisions, saying what to do, reacting, thinking of through it. And then the second like the threat is done, whatever it might be, or the pressure is off, it's just like this, like the emotional, just let that. Just like this like release, just like Comes out.
Speaker 1:See, yeah, I don't know, I Mean. I know what you're talking about because I have that whenever it's an emotional situation Like I mean, dude, like for the last year, any time I talked to my grandma on the phone, mm-hmm. Or I talked to my grandfather while he was concerned about my grandma's health, on the phone, mm-hmm. I do, I would. I would be constantly biting my lip, fighting to hold back tears, not cry, try to cry on the phone, mm-hmm. But the like, the, not emotion, but like chemical dump, mm-hmm, post, mm-hmm. Am I gonna fight this guy? Am I gonna have to defend myself? Like I have to defend this other person? That dump is just like I sprung a leak, like there is no like emotional, like there is no Like breathing pattern or contortion of like you know, when you, when you cry, right, you go the right. There's none of that. It's literally just like Spickets at my eyeballs. You know what I mean. So that's why I like, that's why I think it's different or weird. You know, it's that very like, literally just fluid coming out of my eyes, not like a, not like an emotional response. Hmm, however, I will say mm-hmm. I thought I remember thinking this in the mirror when I was looking in the mirror in the bathroom but I threw up after the first time I drew a gun on a guy and thought I was gonna have to shoot a dude. You know, I say that like, not just like pointed an airsoft gun or something Like, straight up, like thought I was gonna have to shoot a guy, got really close. I remember feeling like the trigger and all that and the dump. After that, after this salute, after the situation was done, and I remember like being in the bathroom at like 22 Mm-hmm, looking in the mirror after throwing it up and I was like that's. And I remember like thinking in my head no, I might have said it out loud to myself, I was just like that's, just like the movies.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cuz you know, you always see that you're like oh, I don't know, maybe that's how it is All right, and I remember like it was, just like it was the weirdest, like chemical dump, my whole body empty. Now, granted, let's be real, I was smoking cigarettes out in the parking lot Mm-hmm, 98 degrees Mm-hmm, and, like you know, the planes of Colorado, mm-hmm, it was like way out in rural Colorado and it was. It was hot and I was probably not hydrated Mm-hmm. That said, though, still I feel like that emotion dump was insane and very much like what what people describe it as. But anyways, all that said, it was a crazy situation at church. Yeah, and it literally refrained my thinking for like the last couple weeks. Mm-hmm, I Don't know man, like, and I'm curious, like, do you feel, like you're framing and like the way you approach in your concerns and maybe your lack of concern, mm-hmm has shifted, and I say this mm-hmm somewhat, mm-hmm, I think like Chambered in knowing your, your thoughts lately, mm-hmm, just because, feel free to bleep this if you want, yeah, but you got a. You got a third one on the way, yeah, and it's a baby girl at that mm-hmm and so if I Think I feel like you know, I don't have any kids, mm-hmm. And so I Think in my head that definitely changes your thinking. Mm-hmm, might change your thinking as a father, in the way you think about the world, knowing you got a baby girl coming on the way. Mm-hmm, I'm just wondering, like, how do you like it? Do you feel, like in the last season, like the brevity, the lightheartedness of stuff might, might be fleeting? Mm-hmm, you're getting ready to be More serious, more assessing, more critical?
Speaker 2:mm-hmm and it's okay if you're not.
Speaker 1:I think I could definitely be a seasonal thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I feel, I know, I think that it's a when it comes to kids and stuff like that, even in general, like besides safety, just your whole life. You just Become, not yourself even more. See, like once you like when you get married. I saw that before you get married you are all your own. Maybe you have a job, you kind of like you're responsible to a boss or whatever, but that doesn't matter, you could, just you could go to him, that you're done, you could leave like you know but you, you get married, you are now. You are not your own. You've decided that you Part of yourself is no longer Yours. I would say this to like it also if you're a believer to and follow Christ, this also is it. There's a parallel to there. It was like if you decide to follow Christ, you like, you are now not your own. Same thing with once the kids come into play, you are even more so not your own, and so your decisions and things you do and how you react to any situation is it's just different, different frame of mind and a different, different goals and different perspective. For sure. And if it's specific and specifically speaking to like protection, it's even that even being not your own even goes more out the window, and I think I've talked about this on a few podcasts too. But where it's like like I don't Really participate in self-defense, defense of self, I participate in Defense of those around, like, like and like. And not to say I'm not saying like I either One don't have like a sense of like self-preservation or like scared of things for my, like my own health, safety, or that like I'm always considering others, but like that kind of it, just as Life, kids, those sorts of things. It just continues to shift even more. So to like I'm the only reason to even take care of myself is Is to take care of them. Yeah, even like, even if, like, if it's a fight, yeah, that's one thing all the way over. To like the longevity of my life, or the success of my career, or like you know, yeah, how you save money, how you eat, how you what it like, how you like, why do I go to the dentist? I don't know, just so that I guess I have teeth. So I live longer, so I can be around for my kids, not so that I can be around, right just I just got out of the dentist.
Speaker 1:So Billy Jean isn't embarrassed by her, disgusted by you, gummy husband, right right.
Speaker 2:But you know, it's just like those sorts of things, like more in every part of your life you just become, it's not unto you and so that, as that unfolds more and more, it's just your thought process in your decision-making is Outward. So, yeah, I think that that that's shifted a little more with each kid and I'm sure, like with a daughter initially. Hmm, like it's funny because, like I know, I have a daughter coming and I know all the like yeah. Things about it or, like you know, the jokes about like time to like oil the guns or whatever, like you know, or like you know all those those things. At the moment I don't really feel any different. But, I do know, like I do know, that there will be instances where that girl will be. There'll be things that happen and the way I react to that will be, like those stereotypical things a father and defensive his daughter, right.
Speaker 1:And I know we've talked about this offline a little bit and that that tracks. One thing I thought about Is I'm very curious to hear the first time one of your boys Are too rough with their sister, mm-hmm, and she let's out of crime, right, and you show up to see one boy is like he's holding the fishing pole.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they became a sword momentarily.
Speaker 1:She's crying and I'm curious to see like how you reacted. That versus how you reacted when it was just boys being boys.
Speaker 2:Right, right I mean like, because I think I think that will be the moment, dude I there'll be some of that stuff too or I will also have to have, like, just like, some serious self-control to not treat a Five-year-old like an adult male. Yeah, right too. And then also there will be like yeah, it'll be interesting, dynamic for sure. And and I've said this to where it's like oh, I'm sure like the way I react, like the way I, the way I discipline my boys, the way I raise my boys, the way that I like my expectations for my boys will be completely different from the way I Raise discipline and expect out of my daughter Mm-hmm, and I want those to all be from healthy places. Yeah, I just do. Yeah, I do believe there's differences and I think that it'll be. It'll be really like I Think for the most part will end up happening is it'll be like you know Well who started it? Oh, actually she did you know she, she, she freaking. Took the cheese stick, yeah, and then got thumped right.
Speaker 1:But then don't matter, because she literally mini my wife.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mostly, most likely like the boys will get the brunt of that, so you gotta play a fair game too. But yeah, I think that we'll just see how that comes out.
Speaker 1:My my biggest, like I just think you know I none of this is based in reality, right?
Speaker 2:because I don't have any kids.
Speaker 1:But I do think about, like how, if I have boys, I'll probably view them as just being mini-me's Mm-hmm, I'll probably treat them the same way. I think I should be treated Mm-hmm. But if I have girls? You know, billie Jean and I are both blonde-haired and blue green-eyed mm-hmm. I'm only gonna see those girls as like mini-billy jeans, mm-hmm, and I know I'll be like Pretty protective.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Like I know I'll be like Probably too protective, mm-hmm, I can't. I like I just can't imagine a world where, regardless of what she does, she's the one that gets Blamed like she's the one that gets punished, right like regardless of what she does if her brother is around, I imagine like I'll be like, well, what, what the what the hell were you doing? Yeah, exactly. But I always all I said I guess I'm I'm dating here definitive answer, but like, do you feel like your Ability to suspend concern is fleeting as like time Goes on in this last year, six months, like, do you find yourself more concerned? You find yourself having to Focus more to be present and not be concerned about other things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. The thing I've been thinking about Lately too and I thought I was for a long time too is there's no summer breaks anymore oh, yeah, like there's like and so like. Yeah, you know, here would be the. The situation in. In middle school you got two D's. You got suspended once you've got these. This kid who's kind of? You know, this one kid's a jerk. This other girl you like her so much I can tell she's all you think about, but she doesn't even know you exist. And all that weight and all that heaviness and all that stuff you're carrying around that last day of school when it lets out and you're on summer break, it just disappears. Those D's, they don't matter, they're gone. Like that those bullies or those guys who are jerks, like they don't live in your neighborhood anymore. Like and like the you forget about the girl because you're just hanging out riding your bike and so all that like that feeling of freedom and just the world is your oyster and You're doing what you want with your day or whatever. Like I'm, you have it's funny to be like I'm coming to. I've come to terms with the fact of. Like you know, yeah, no, I don't get to. Not go to work for three months, right, like that's okay, but and it's not that. That's not the thing. The physical part of it's not what I care about, it's the, the feeling in my chest is Always there and it's, and I've what I've been wondering is will it ever go away again, like well, or will it ever be like released because there is no, like the clock doesn't get reset. You know, like all the all, your, all the things in life that you've put off, all the stuff that's going on, like All the little things, all the big things, like the only the only way those get dealt with is you dealing with them, and Then there's just gonna be a pile of more things to deal with. So, like in this life, do I ever get to experience that feeling again? And I, I Kind, I hope to like, but I wonder if I think the way you live your life now like, I Think you one have to. I think I think there's healthy parts of the fact that that's never gonna be around again, because you're a man who's responsible for others and and you're a man who's, like, had failures and had successes and you carry those with you. But also, I think the way you live your life and choose to live your life like We'll also then determine some of the ways you get to like when you're 68 and you decide you know you're slowing down to retire or these sorts of things. Can you Ever feel like you're on summer break again? Be a grandpa, go fishing, whatever? I don't know. Yeah, but like that thing in my chest even talking about it right now is like the weight and the tightness is there and like, mm-hmm, will it ever be summer break again? Yeah, I don't know and so the and that carries into you know, like, how are you being present in conversations and like being in the moment with things, and I'm probably I'm like never in the moment I'm either Thinking about the future. You're never in the moment, I don't think.
Speaker 1:I think even with when we've had our guests on the show, you've never been present in the moment, I think well, and even, even in a pod, not thinking about anything else.
Speaker 2:What's funny, even about like a podcast, for instance, would be in the back of my mind. I am always thinking about the fact that this is being recorded to be heard by people.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:I'm always thinking about the fact that, like you know, what I say isn't just in a conversation of three guys around campfire. It's a Broadcast or it's gonna be taken by people or housing is broadcasted out there, like our 16,000 listeners in India exactly For sure and so like. So even in that thing too, and I feel like there are times when I get to live in the moment but like either I'm like numbing out with, like you know, scroll on social media, or reading like a book you know, or even if it's educational or something it's gonna move you like that like is is a good thing to read a book, or or I am just in a mode of Working to get things done, move the ball forward, thinking about the future and those sorts of things, and so I Don't know what area of those, some of those things are healthy. To just be a productive Person in your life and in other parts of them do rob you definitely from like just being Someone who enjoys life.
Speaker 1:Hmm, you know I agree with that dude. Thanks for sharing and thanks for being honest with that. Yeah, I think that's kind of the cool duality of like you and I are buds. We're not that far apart in age. Mm-hmm but you're three kids ahead of me right and like we are experiencing different lives, mm-hmm, different focuses of time and effort and money. But anyways, I guess my question out there to the kin is what about you, you know, do you find yourself able to be present? Still, you find yourself to able to supersede concern, anxiety or just stressors in general, to be present and engage in conversation and Not be thinking about other things, be listening and be present. Or have you been in a season as well where you find yourself wondering when that next summer break is, when you'll be able to be, have a a Feeling of lightness, of no concern, no care? We'll have to hear from you. I think I've in my conversations. Mm-hmm I would say I feel like I feel like I've seen many people yearning For that season of lightness again, mm-hmm, and maybe it's just because we're coming up on a really big election cycle Presidential, congressional, senators, you know all that stuff I 2024 shaping up to be really big year, and I wonder if that's kind of why people feel so heavy about it. But all I said We'd love to hear from you, all our listeners. We love you, we appreciate you listening, kin, but with that pad I'm gonna hand it over you to to sign off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that the Feeling of lightness Is attainable and I think that it is something that is part of us that you do have to. Actually, you have to like, be disciplined and work for at the same time, because we have so many distractions and so many things pushing on us that we it robs us of our ability to get into that, into a into piece and, like you mentioned, like this, here's an election cycle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also, you can't afford a house and you know, or like you have, most Unaffordable it's ever been like. Don't a house.
Speaker 2:You've got two college degrees and you can't get a good job. You, every girl you meet, it just doesn't work out or what it could. What it like, you know, like the Big, big world, global scale, all the way down to like just your little things in life and like mm-hmm those things, they just they bring on the pressure, and so the Detaching from that stuff is, I think, super important, something I need to practice more, for sure, myself. Hmm, but the all the heavy things in life. I saw someone the other day who is concerned for their kid and Concerned about, kind of like, how hard they are being on their kid. Hmm in some ways too. But I had the end of a conversation I was like I just told him is like I put so much pressure on him. I just said it. It's pressure makes diamonds, like now. Also, pressure crushes and destroys too. So there's there's, there is a there's a line. But finding the balance there and like so, meaning in your life, if you're in a place where you're on summer break and it's light, soak it up, and if you're in your place of pressure, I don't let it destroy you, let it make you a diamond dig deep you know, yeah that's it. So yeah, guys, I think we enjoy doing this, we enjoy Talking, we love that people tune in and want to hear what the heck we have to say. Check us out on YouTube is starting to become one of our you know, main platforms as well, as a place where you can kind of see kind of these conversations broken up into a little bit smaller chunks as well, and We've got a website up you can check out for when new things are coming your way dude, leave us voicemails.
Speaker 1:It's a feature on the website. It's a weird feature. It is tap on it with your phone and leave us. We want to hear people leave voice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's fun, yeah encourage us or Um discourage, debase us on whatever you know, and that'll be great. That'll be great fun, and so We'll be. We're excited for the new year. We've we're gonna keep doing this. It's fun. Keep tuning in, and Until next time till next time.