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Picture Dean, decked out as Christian Bale from American Psycho, sans glasses and piercings—just one highlight from our discussion on the stark reality of today's political scene. We're not shy about drawing parallels with "The Emperor's New Clothes," touching the raw nerve of media bias and the troubling haze over our political discourse. We share tales and unravel the complexities behind gun control, mental health, and the deeply ingrained American tradition of bearing arms.
This episode isn't just about dissecting the problems; it's about peering into the heart of contentious issues, like the nuanced implications of gun legislation on diverse gun owners, from hunters to antique firearm enthusiasts. We tackle the controversy head-on, scrutinizing the political theater of gun laws and their real-world consequences. We also wade into the essential conversation on training, advocating a necessary balance between rights and responsibilities. Gun ownership isn't just a constitutional right; it's a cultural fabric that demands understanding, respect, and, above all, education.
History often serves as our greatest teacher, and we turn its pages to the Battle of Athens and the Battle of Blair Mountain—moments where citizens stood against tyranny and injustice. These stories aren't just relics; they're a testament to the enduring spirit of vigilance and action that defines us. As we wrap up, we thank you, our listeners, for embarking on this journey through the complexities of the American identity, underscored by our collective pursuit of life, liberty, and the responsible exercise of our rights.
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00:00 - American Psycho Halloween Costume Discussion
07:49 - Political Theater and Liquid Death
17:23 - Colorado Gun Laws and Suicide Rates
25:04 - Politicians and Gun Control Issues
29:37 - Debate on Gun Ownership and Regulations
40:38 - Gun Legislation and Training Discussion
54:19 - Gun Control Legislation Impact Discussion
01:04:49 - Post-War Revolts in Rural America
01:15:09 - The Battle of Blair Mountain
01:22:12 - Veterans and Civilian Vigilance
01:31:44 - Discussion on Utility and Recreational Firearms
Dean, when are you going to go as Christian Bale from American Cycle for Halloween? When are you going to do at least do a spoof video where it's just you getting ready in the morning, like doing a workout and like icing your face and pulling like that, like what, like that fake skin mold off, you know, to clean your?
Speaker 2:
pores. Is this because I have my hair slicked back?
Speaker 1:
Because that was because you look like Christian Bale when he was your age and it was in American Psycho, especially when, like you, get excited and your eyebrows go up and you like give your full smile. You don't look like him that much with glasses on. Bro, we take my yeah, take your glasses up, all right, and then kind of slick your hair back a little bit. You know, look, there we go, there you go, pat tell me.
Speaker 3:
I think you could do it yeah bro yeah. I mean you take the.
Speaker 1:
You gotta take the nose piercings out.
Speaker 2:
But yeah, I think I wear a jumpsuit and just walk around with an ax Right.
Speaker 1:
It doesn't have a jumpsuit on, he's a full suit. He's in a full suit on.
Speaker 3:
Oh yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:
You're right.
Speaker 3:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
I could do that next Talk about talking heads and like talk about all the talking heads facts that you know about their alos and stuff, and like how well it was received and what, like box office, not box of billboard top 100 was on, and then just clap people in the back then the bummer part is how few people would actually know no, no, no, no, especially All right.
Speaker 1:
Here's. Here's how most people will know, they'll know you. They'll be like oh, you're that, you're the guy from the meme. If you just walk around with headphones from the 80s plugged into like a walkman and it's in your suit pocket and you just like walk into the party like, lips pressed out, like, like people, be like oh, that's, that's Christian Bale from that movie, because I don't think that many people will recognize it from the from the murder suit. That much you know like from like when he kills Jared Leto.
Speaker 3:
It's because it's.
Speaker 1:
you either always see him doing that scene in the memes or the scene where he's like looking at the business card. Very nice, you think, if you have a new, some dressed up as American Psycho during Halloween.
Speaker 2:
People would think that he was Gavin Newsom, or they would just immediately think he was, I don't know, like from silhouette.
Speaker 1:
Definitely psycho, yeah, I mean he is kind of a psycho. Yeah, I mean he is kind of a psycho. Yeah, everything about him. He is definitely a psycho. But anyways, state of the Union to though farce like that was such a.
Speaker 1:
I didn't watch any of it until Pat showed me the video, but it's just like. The weird thing is like we have so many, we're so politically divided nowadays that, like you will get, regardless of how well an event goes politically, state of the Union address or whatever You're going to get footage from both angles and both sides and they're always going to say something negative about you.
Speaker 1:
You know your competitors or whatever you do that party and dude, like we watched the MSNBC video take on it and it was still not great, still tripping over his words by, didn't like, really just embarrassingly, I think, in my opinion costs just under 50 times. Well, like it's, even like. Is that something to be ashamed of? No, maybe he had a cold, but the way he can't like, the way it's like the cough and then like the lost.
Speaker 1:
But, it's like it's the fact that, like after coughing, he's lost, and like his script. But then you watch it also from the other side, which I'm not saying. One of these news outlets is right or wrong Right, but you just watch from the other side and like the footage that MSNBC cut out and then it's like the freaking highlight, real. Yeah, it is just the man and like everyone's, like nobody is just like this guy's not here, dude, Like those were the best clips the dribble struggle.
Speaker 1:
You know what I mean. And it's just like in what world and I just think it's sad, like it's. You know, I had this play in elementary school and I don't. I didn't have it. I had like one line in the play, right, but it was our fifth grade play and it was called the Emperor's New Clothes and I just didn't get it.
Speaker 1:
I was in fifth grade and I was like what is this about? And they're like yeah, this guy comes saying he's going to make the Emperor a royal set of new clothes and it's going to be phenomenal and it's going to be amazing and it's worth a ton of money and he'll these clothes will make him really the king he's always wanted to be. But this, the seamster never knows, he doesn't know how to sew and he never creates the clothes, but he just keeps on saying they're so magnificent and everyone's so afraid to tell the king that he's not wearing anything that he ends up going out when parading in front of all of his subjects in his pajamas and he's not wearing anything at all.
Speaker 1:
But it's gaslighting to like the highest level. It is one of those things I remember as a kid. I get that it's funny that my buddy Tom is walking on stage in like the red lumberjack pajamas. But why isn't the king wearing any clothes? Why wouldn't we tell him? Because you get your head cut off. You're supposed to be afraid. But he's not wearing any clothes. And now I get it, bro. Now I see it and I get it, dude. I see it like just the way we like toe and dance around Biden and like oh yeah.
Speaker 1:
Like everyone's just like nodding there, like you can do it and like I'm just like dude. The king's got no clothes on dude.
Speaker 3:
Kings got no clothes on and all of us can see it. And half of us are pretending and that in the adult version he's naked. Yeah, Like he's butt, ass naked. And the seems the seamstress is a calm man and what he tells people is if you're an idiot, you can't see it, and so nobody wants to admit that they're an idiot. So they just say oh, it's, it's, that robe is beautiful, the sash that this, the, the, they get real detailed.
Speaker 3:
I'm like you know the purple, yeah, the dye and the stitching the gold leaf lace and the and the king's like oh no, I'm an idiot To, because I can't see it, I can't see it and he's like oh, these are, these are beautiful, thank you, thank you and the and that really is this thing about, especially like whatever hyper division, what culture, all these things where it's like the pandering. I'm just going to say that I agree. I'm just going to say that's beautiful. Yeah, I'm just going to say you do you that's beautiful. Because I have to say, if I don't say you do you that's beautiful to whatever weird ass thing you're doing, then I, then you're an idiot, I'm a problem, or worse.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I prove myself as, as you know, somebody who's the other, and so that is. That is a great point Make. That is what's going on. The emperor's new clothes is going on before our eyes.
Speaker 1:
Is it like? I just thought about that the other day. I was just like it's crazy. I like I had stress years after that play and I wasn't like a thespian right. I wasn't like, but I just remember like and I remember wasn't me like other fifth graders. You know, we left, we didn't middle school and we're like does anyone know what that play was about?
Speaker 1:
yet, Like and we're all still trying to figure it out and I just like I get it. He became so clear to me. You know so, but it was. I think you could say the same thing to you. I'm like the other side, right, right, like there was. There was kind of that moment where you all remember, back when Trump was prez, he did the appeasement and sacrificed the what was our stock that so many people are using for like fun day at the range bump stocks, oh yeah. And like on the altar of right after the shooting in Vegas at the what country, what country concert was that it was?
Speaker 3:
it was a big it was like a big country.
Speaker 1:
He sacrificed bump stock on the altar of appeasement to try to look like not completely gun guy Right, and all the like a lot of conservatives, a lot of like Republicans like, oh, that's what he had to do. He had to do it.
Speaker 1:
Don't you see, he's just a busy and that was something none of us care about it Like. Then all the bump stock guys, like people who I don't have one, but I know people like Fuck you man, bullshit for this guy. So we wouldn't just get like it, lead like told no, you can't have that anymore because it even though the other guy I don't even know if he had bump stocks on any of his firearms and he did, he did, he did, but okay.
Speaker 1:
Even then, it's like even though, yes, we all know like, if anything, bump stocks probably saved more lives right from that incident, because about incredibly impossible this control firearm with one, it's like no one cares about that. The fact is that if shoots a lot of bullets and he let it rip, he let it rip real loud and he was an evil man and he had those. It's like those are bad, take him away. And it's like sorry guys.
Speaker 1:
And I don't know anyone who turned them in or destroyed him. I just know people who were like yeah, so I lost that, I don't went range day and I fucking left it out.
Speaker 2:
Drop it on the ground.
Speaker 1:
I feel so dumb and I'm just like it's on the tailgate when I drove off Exactly, and so it's one of those things of like it goes both ways, right, people do it on both sides. Yeah, but it is so obvious when you see, like the political applause and nodding of the heads for Biden, like just it was bad, okay, like it's just, like, all right.
Speaker 2:
I will say the other night, when, when you expect somebody, when you expect to get to fail a test right and you're like you are dead set that you're going to fail this test, and then you get like a, like a C minus, you're like that's a B in my eyes. That's a B Like I expected him to do, significantly not in what he said, but just his sheer ability to stand up there for an hour and talk in front of a crowd of people.
Speaker 3:
Was it an hour alone? I think it was hour 20.
Speaker 2:
Whoa, I expected it to go a lot worse. But the real question is how much of that White House cocaine did they have to pump him with to get him up there?
Speaker 1:
What White House cocaine? You shut your mouth. Anyways, I said you put it well, theater, it's all just theater right now, and both oh, you want another liquid, I do.
Speaker 3:
I do Well you grab them.
Speaker 1:
You want a mango chainsaw or?
Speaker 3:
Arnie, I do want a mango chainsaw If I had my Arnie Palmie.
Speaker 1:
The armless Palmer.
Speaker 3:
Yep.
Speaker 1:
It was really good. Thank you, and that's my fear, but the mango chainsaw is down. Yeah, dino, tonight brought us some liquid death. Because I love it, I've been on a big kick and put.
Speaker 3:
The kids are drinking these days.
Speaker 1:
Well, also, you know, dude, I had a buddy who reached out to me and he was just like hey, I'm going to start going to AA and I want you to just hold me accountable.
Speaker 1:
I want you to be my accountability partner and I was like, cool, what do we got to do? And he's like, well, honestly, just, you know, keep me accountable whenever we hang out or wherever we go, do something and not like, make sure that people aren't drinking around me and if they are, we kind of we have an alternative option to like, you know, leave or whatever. And, honestly, we haven't had like, we haven't like we haven't been in a situation like that since he started going, which is great. But I just realized I was like you know what? I don't want to be one of those people who needs, who, like is unaware that they're making it a harder situation for them. It's so I was just like I'll look into some other stuff, and originally I was looking into liquid death because I'd heard about it and I heard they used it. They used to have a subscription model.
Speaker 1:
You could subscribe and they send a 12 pack to your door, oh nice. And it was like you could have it like once a week, every two weeks, once a month, and I was just going to do that for him for a gift, but then I saw they didn't do that anymore. So I was like well, I guess I'll just get him some.
Speaker 2:
I guess I'll just go to King Supers.
Speaker 1:
And this is the bad part, because I just bought it and then I drank all of it because it's really good, dude, it's good, I think it's good water and it's good taste.
Speaker 2:
He doesn't need his old pack. I'll just try one.
Speaker 1:
I will say this, it has made me, I think, like it's definitely made me just not want to drink really at all, other than like when we, you know, are sitting down to like review beer or something like that, because it's really just satisfied the, I think, honestly, the ritual of cracking something yeah. Like the ritual and like the. I didn't realize how much. I just crack a beer open so I can spit my Zen out after I drink it and like just having something else to do that with.
Speaker 1:
That's not all. I feel like is one made my sleep better and way more regular, and not like you know, not like I was out here pounding my hardcore anyways, but yeah, it also makes me feel like, okay, I'm aware of it more and I'll be aware of it when I'm around, my homie, who's you know, trying to, trying to quit stuff. So all I said I'm a big fan of liquid death dude.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, this is my first. I'm a big fan of it Really.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. And you're already like it's got like one of the things it's got all those things like liquid death skull on a can little try hard, right, and then you have it. You're like I get it, I get it. This is kind of like they're kind of in on it, it's a joke and they're kind of in on like yeah, it's hardcore bro.
Speaker 3:
Well, I saw like 12 year olds drinking it like a year ago and I was like who gave these children alcohol?
Speaker 2:
They're drinking on the street.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, these kids are drinking tall boys on the curb. I think this looks a lot like some of the first gen for loco cans.
Speaker 2:
I don't know Like the coloring it does. In fact, I had a little Vietnam flashback the first time I saw on these cans that I was like oh.
Speaker 1:
God, I was like oh, I'm about to have a, really bad Tuesday. Oh, anyways, but it's also Pat's birthday it is and we got a church train day coming up with the security team. We got a train up and yeah.
Speaker 3:
I got your egg.
Speaker 1:
Oh no, but I figured I'd just give you, let's go, do you?
Speaker 2:
have nine so that way you don't have to spend any of your own ammo while training.
Speaker 1:
I like it and that's about the same cost as like a log of six milligrams in. I feel like.
Speaker 3:
So great, that's wonderful. We're gonna go burn it up a couple days, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:
But on that note, dude, the freaking bills are coming out this week the House Bill, senate bill, here in Colorado. Yeah, I'm not gonna, you know, get on my pulpit here, but I just figure, since we have a lot of our primary listenership on podcasts is Colorado. Primary, excuse me listenership on YouTube is India.
Speaker 3:
What's India's gun laws? If you're rich enough and if you're in the right caste system, you can have it.
Speaker 1:
I think so those lines but anyways, the House Bill and Senate bills that are coming out, they're pretty bummer bills being proposed and I think my biggest concern with them, you know, is of course that they don't even remotely come close to tackling the issue at hand. When it comes to gun violence in Colorado, which gun violence in Colorado, depending on your views, isn't really gun violence, it's self violence, suicide, Right, Colorado has always been one of the states with the highest rates of suicide. A lot of people like science I shouldn't say people a lot of scientists chalk that up to the altitude and the wind patterns. It's got to even a term in the Eastern part of the world coming out of, like the Nordic countries. There's a term for the winds that can blow down through these valleys and because they have a higher level of protons in them positive charged particles it literally drives people mad and it is an excuse for murder in some of those nations.
Speaker 1:
There have been people in court cases that have been tossed out, where someone has murdered someone during the season of the winds, and it's like there's another one there's another term for it in South America, because it's a very similar thing where it comes like off of these high altitude peaks down through for fjords to lower elevation and it drives people crazy. Anyways, that said, colorado seems to have that same kind of wind effect, especially in certain areas where, like you think about Grand County, the suicide rate in Grand County is off the charts comparatively to the population. Steamboat has like one of the highest suicide rates in the nation. And you know, I want to be open here and kind of like make sure it's not a sensitive topic or anyone to speak around it.
Speaker 1:
I had an uncle who committed suicide and it was with a gun that he owned and it was right after he had finished building a house in Steamboat. Like he was working in Steamboat for like over nine months, from like summer through winter. And it was crazy to me because, like after that happened, I had some friends who are nurses and stuff tell me like yeah, I don't know if you know this, but like it's like every year six to seven men just men alone killed themselves in steamboat, like through the isolation, and stuff like that. And so it's like one of those things where, like when you look at the trends and all that, it's pretty crazy and there's a lot of people trying to do scientific research to understand like, what is this pattern here for it? But, all that said, I don't personally view my uncle's death as gun violence. I just view it as suicide right And-.
Speaker 2:
It's an inflated statistic.
Speaker 1:
Well, and you know, in Colorado 2021, everyone likes to not everyone, but a lot of people are politicians like to tote this as like it was the highest record of gun violence over the last 40 years, since 1981, it got to the highest rate, where 18 people died by a firearm per 100,000, which is a pretty big rate for a state as small as ours. But the story and I'm looking at the Colorado Sun the Colorado Sun did a great article on this because a lot of people were referencing these statistics got. This article got published in 2023 by John Engel, so credit to him and the Colorado Sun's not like usually one way or the other, they're pretty nonpartisan and when it comes to like politics, pretty good, like hardcore journalism. But when you look at, like really, how this breaks down for age adjusted, it comes out to about 17.7 gun deaths and when you see how many it was a year, it was 1,059. So to put it really in that perspective, you know the rate of 17.7 per 100,000 is a rate because it was 1,059 in 2021. Three quarters of that, over three quarters of that, was suicide, which I think is like something that a lot of people don't aren't aware of. That. That is the majority, the bulk of when we see gun deaths. I think even a few years ago, before COVID, the percentage was like two thirds and now it's three quarters because of how many more people are killing themselves, because we're actually seeing homicide not really spike but kind of remain the same rate nationally, outside of like other places like you know, where insecurities on the rise, like San Francisco, la, chicago, right Outside of those big cities, like homicide rates aren't really growing.
Speaker 1:
And so, all that said, when I see these gun laws like an assault weapons ban, a safe space, concealed carry ban, requirement of safe storage and vehicles tracking, gun purchase and ammo purchases, liability insurance mandate for concealed carryholders, firearm dealer requirements and permits to be state given, a state provided disarming school safety officers and 11% tax on all guns and ammo sales, like when I see those, I'm like what's that going to do about the 17,000 men in women who commit suicide by firearm, which is majority of those are 25 to 44 year old men? And so, like that's why, like I've you know, I want to want to talk about this a little bit because it's not going to do anything, like the if these laws get passed, if our you know house incentive, vote on them and pass them and approve them. That's not going to do a damn thing for, like the mental health crisis that we see in Colorado and you know, oh yeah, like sure, a gun is the easiest way to probably do it outside of like the convenience of all just take these pills and go to sleep, right. So anyways, I want to hear your guys thoughts on these and kind of these laws here. They kind of got like their worst case name and quotes of like what people are afraid, like that they're really going to do. But like people know that.
Speaker 1:
You know we are on the security team for our church. It's a volunteer position. You know we're not paid, but Senate bill 24131 would ban any concealed carry permit holder from being able to conceal carry in church. It'd be a state law, like regardless of the church's opinion, you'd have to be a paid security team, law enforcement, you know stuff like that. And so the library liability insurance mandate make owners have a liability insurance in case someone kills himself with their gun. How's that going to stop the owner if they decide to use it? You know what I mean to take their own life like it doesn't do anything. They're, they're bulk, like they're burdened some laws on law abiding citizens. That doesn't address the core issue of mental health.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, the Well. In general, I think that politicians always going to use whatever's the the easiest low hanging fruit to make any issue ring in people's ears. They're going to use that whether or not it fixes the problem. You know you can see this in any sort of like college debt, for instance, like forgiving college debt or something like that, where you go.
Speaker 3:
Okay, yeah, that that's that rings in a lot of like young people's ears right now because they're carrying a butt load of debt, but that they didn't like they're not addressing the problem, the root of the cause.
Speaker 3:
They're just addressing something to, you know, when the people to their side for the next vote, for the next term, whatever, and so, yeah, you can see this in when racial issues come up, or, yeah, minority statuses come up and and the proposed these, this and that proposed thing that's going to fix this and that the other, but it's never getting to the root causes of things, and I think that the leg they're trying to stand on, especially around gun violence, is, you know, the two main things would be one, suicide and then two, you know, active shooters specifically in, like, you know, schools or people with children, things like that, and the all these bands don't address the root problem of both those things, because I think that probably, whatever the thing is going on inside of people that drives them towards suicide is if you, if you, could psychoanalyze, it is also going to be very closely linked to the same exact state of minds and things that people get into when they do like an active shooting oh yeah, like sure, and so a lot of those people are suicidal from you know, to begin with right.
Speaker 3:
So, like, the underlying mental health things going on are going to be very like you know, and that's always where this conversation kind of goes immediately when you have the, the gun talk is, you know, one side says get rid of the guns, the other side says address mental health. Um, and so, without getting like straight into that, I think that I just don't know how they're going to enforce any of these things.
Speaker 3:
And this is, um, one thing we've seen in a lot of things over the years, especially like, say, like in the hunting community, is the death by a thousand cuts so yeah, it's just a little we, we take a little bit each time, yep, each time you just take a little bite out of the elephant until eventually there's no elephant left and um, so you can see that around like public lands or or you know hunting rights to be able to hunt here there.
Speaker 3:
You know, um, we're not gonna like a great prime example. This would be um, back about 30 years ago in Colorado they banned trapping because it would. It would be like nearly impossible at that point in time to propose a bill that said in hunting. But if you take the furry little creatures that are, you know, cute and you talk about trapping right, which a very small portion of the population did at the time, you could, it was much easier thing to grab and take away, and then is, but they didn't stop at that. They didn't say, okay, we got done with trapping, the trappings illegal and there's so some forms of trapping that are illegal, but the, you know they didn't stop there, they're gonna keep marching forward. And so, yeah, same thing with using the word assault weapon, which, for lots of people who are educated in this like area and or, like you know, two-way people, you know the word assault weapon is, um, either one like funny or infuriating, because, every.
Speaker 3:
It's not real well, well, it's not real, and it is real so it's a blanket catch all in that it's such a catch all because, really, depending on who you are, how much training you have or or how violent of a person you are, anything in your hand is an assault weapon. Right, like these hands. You know, yeah, exactly, you know, a sock with a bar of soap in it's a assault weapon, yeah, um so. But the first thing to go after is you know the the big scaries, um, I think what's interesting too is what they categorize as assault weapons in here some interesting things that really like and what I think also weak in the bill, or some of the specific types of weapons that they are, that they included in here might actually be some of the things that make this not pass, for instance, like the 50 caliber rifle just any 50 caliber rifle.
Speaker 3:
So uh, uh. If you have an awesome, super cool antique hawken, 50 cow um muzzle loader that you want to, you want to buy one someday, or you have one and you want to sell it or you want to go out and use it, now that's illegal and that's like. That's like one shot and that's the furthest thing from three minute reload. Yeah, it's a muzzle loader it's like the, the furthest thing from your modern, modern ar-15 right um and so.
Speaker 1:
I think that. I think another big one is just like even the people who are like what we call them in the firearms community futz, because they're like the boy. You don't need nothing other than a single stack 1911 to deal with any problem. If you can't do it in seven rounds of 45, you ain't gonna do it in 19 of nine, right? You don't need that a r15. What you need is this God-given 30 yachts, six lever actually never no no, no right with the M1 grand.
Speaker 3:
Good enough for my grandpa with the Nazis, should be good enough for you, which don't get sick guns right.
Speaker 1:
I'm an aspiring foot the fudds eventually, like the, a lot of fuzz. Vote against. Vote for gun laws? No, yeah, they don't. There's no reason for them to have AR 15s. They have access to 30 out six. Oh, we don't need suppressors or blicks switches.
Speaker 1:
I, I, I lost my hearing in the war and I'm doing just fine you know, you know it is a presser and all I said like even the fuzz now are like hearing this. Like wait a second, you're gonna take away my threaded barrel on my how my, you know, pick a gun whatever pick any hunting rifle.
Speaker 1:
Well, I, but I put a, I put a suppressor on that because it is actually good for my hearing and it will break my hearing aids, you know. And it's just like oh, I, I do have a thread on my 1911 Kimber Desert Warrior like I Can't have that anymore. It was like it's just like it's such obnoxious, like Over overreach in this bill of features that have no bearing on the lethality of the firearm, right, and it's just like it's honestly the big scary bill and anything that could be scary. I think like one of the things that also is probably just gonna like not win over. People is like Usually on these like assault weapons bands, people are like, well, I like, oh, that's a bummer that the AR guys lost their guns, but I guess that just means all the AR guys are gonna buy AKs now, like right, and then like this one, it's like no Thompson rifles, thompson machine guns, uzi models, uzi rifles.
Speaker 3:
Back ten is on there. Oh yeah, Just like why. Why are we going after?
Speaker 1:
the road because, that's a true sweeper dog. I know it's a game weapon.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, it's like I don't think there are any like like the amount of legal Mac 10s out there. Do not outnumber the amount of like illegal Mac 10s You're never gonna find.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think also thing is crazy where they're like a Muzzle break is illegal and it's like, oh so really yeah.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, it's like it is. So my moss in the gun. It's got a muzzle break on it.
Speaker 1:
Also in this build they're just like also fuck you if you got like a what's that called a trust.
Speaker 3:
Oh yeah, cuz that's the big workaround.
Speaker 1:
They really want to take the trust really wanted, like make it so you like, if you died, the trust just goes to the state, because that is the loophole.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, like that is the biggest loophole you can take my guns yeah it's in a trust.
Speaker 2:
But if you think about it like that, that is a way that in the future they can eliminate this like rifles or any other Weapon that they do not approve of. That. That's how you end it for the long haul, yeah because you time capsule the thing. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:
The yeah, cuz, yeah, essentially what the part of this is doing that death by a thousand cuts, while this seems like it's not ending gun ownership, because eventually you cannot pass your guns on to your kids or give them to your kids or sell them to people. It it does, it, it dies with that owner right.
Speaker 1:
Well, in that bill even specifically says to that federal firearm licensed dealers Will have to turn over their entire inventory of any firearms that fall underneath that like category of anything listed by August 1st to an out-of-state resident. Yes so, yeah, what's crazy is like FFLs won't even be allowed to have those firearms in State anymore to sell to like law enforcement agencies. That's why I'm also like you know no who gives the guns to the cops, like it's Joe blows gun shop you know, I mean like a like yes, yes, he sells guns to the civilians in population.
Speaker 1:
But the police come to me like, hey, joe, blow you, willing to cut us a deal? So that way, sig sar isn't just Exhorting us like for each officer to have a patrol rifle. He's like oh yeah, sure, I'll buy him and then I'll give him to you like at a lower, like lower price rate. And like people just don't, I think, really understand how a lot of like the law enforcement and agencies receive their weapons, or like how they get to test and demo weapons. You know they don't.
Speaker 1:
Usually it's very uncommon for them to just go to like a gun company and be like, hey, can we try out your guns to see if they'd work for our officers? They there's a like a licensed, you know, federally recognized individual with like a class 3 that can be like, yeah, so you want to try out MP5s? I have MP5s and I'm specifically allowed to own these MP5s to allow you to test them To decide if you want to buy more. And like a lot of people don't get like when you see a dude who's not a cop or military firing a machine gun his back yard. He's a class 3 FFL who has those weapons? Underneath the Again bureaucratic pile of paperwork that says like oh yeah, I have this MP7 imported from Germany in case the LA police department wants to try out MP7s If it would fit their need and it's like and he has to renew that paperwork every damn year and the ATF comes and checks About.
Speaker 3:
I, the buddy who is looking at starting a little ammo company. Yeah, atf agent came out, checked him out, signed him off. He said it was actually really relaxed, chill process like, yeah, surprisingly easy the ATF agents who come and give you permission.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I've always started the chill guys.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, like they're.
Speaker 3:
I've always heard they're like the.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I'm in here to destroy from the inside like they're the wrong swans as many as many people as I can sign up to sell guns as I can.
Speaker 3:
They're the wrong swans of ATF, that's hilarious, and I was talking about the word assault weapon and how that's like a trigger for 2a guys. Yeah, well, here's also a phrase to stop using 2a guys, because I'm gonna come at it from the other side a little bit. Oh, modern sporting rifle. Hmm, just shut the hell up. It's not a modern sporting rifle, it is For killing people and just get okay with that. Okay, here's what it's for. I'm just telling you how it is is designed to fire stuff fast. It's designed to be reloaded at rapid rates. This is designed to be very accurate and it's designed to be able to put in any Individuals hands and have them basically up and going with it in a matter of 10 minutes and so convenient. It's a well and it's a disgusting thing, but that's what it's for, and so like I, just like I and I.
Speaker 3:
What I don't like is the fact that, just like the, the emperor clothes things where you have to like, package it perfectly and and present it this one way and then call it this one thing I'm just like you know what, and it's one little leg to stand on say, no, this, this, this is a great gun for hunting hogs. You know, yeah, it is. You know what's like the most. You know what animal is the closest thing to a human being in the United States of America on an Intelligence level hogs.
Speaker 1:
Well, yeah, and like, just you know, physically, like density of flesh. So it's just anyways, that's my, that's my one little peeve with it Do you think, though, the modern sporty thing comes over from our European brethren who are trying to still own guns, right?
Speaker 3:
because?
Speaker 1:
because they don't have the ability to Fighting tyranny's not built into their DNA in a lot of countries too, you're allowed to have like a, you know, hunting rifle. Not just a hunting rifle, but you're allowed to have what is known as a sporting rifle for being a part of a club and doing competition, sport, shooting right. And the only way you can get your hands on a semi-automatic 223 or 762 caliber firearm Is if you prove you've been a member of the club for a certain year. You go and do training with the club, you give them your donations and you have like firearm safety stuff and then they're like all right, it's a sporting rifle though.
Speaker 1:
Remember this like this is not for hunting. If we see you hunting anything with this bad news right, and so you know.
Speaker 3:
The thing is just like I. We're not people, we're not trying to fight to protect your right to. It'd be in a two-gun speed club, yeah that's not the point of it. That's a great thing. It's a cool thing. It's awesome thing. That's I won't yeah.
Speaker 1:
I would love to do it and I will. I hope in my life I Continue to do more two-gun speed stuff than I have to defend myself.
Speaker 3:
Exactly, but my.
Speaker 1:
The amount of times I've had to use again to defend myself Will not be disclosed on this podcast. The amount of times I've done a two-gun course probably about Getting it up to like 60 right exactly, exactly and so, but just like that's not the point. Yeah, that's not why I'm keeping, keeping these, these rights.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's not why I own my AR that way. I own any my guns. I own them for the sake of someone fought and died for me to have this right and and I honestly do see it as a duty to train up and learn and have safety. So that way, if there's ever a need for America to defend itself again which we go and talk about a little bit, you know but if there's ever a need like, then you know I'd be Competitive enough to do that, let alone protect my family, like I'm not even talking on a we need every red-blooded American to step up, like I'm talking like. Also, you know, someone means to just do harm falls us home and I want to be prepared for that too. So all I said, these laws are pretty crazy. Please look into them and if you are Colorado resident, look up and See. You know who your constituents I mean not constituents are, who you representative and senators for, like which district you fall under.
Speaker 1:
I wrote an email to mine today. It was a very politely awarded email. It was very much just outlining the bills and my concerns with them, and I don't think they really address the cause of this, which is the mental health health crisis in Colorado, and so with that too, I also there was like there's one bill it is a bill that I think is a very reasonable bill for concealed carry Requirements of training and I'll be honest, like I do think it is your constitutional right to be able to carry the gun and like have that on your purse, like, as an American, you have the right to own a firearm and you have the right to have it on you. I really do believe that. I also believe that there is a lot of dumbasses who think they're John Wick.
Speaker 1:
And One thing I've always told people when they carry a gun, or they tell me you know, I was one of the first people my friend group to get my concealed carry, and so when any anyone came to me and was like, hey, man, I just got my concealed carry to my cool, why'd you tell me too, like, did you spend 80 hours training with it? And people like what? No, I just did the course. I'm like you should spend 80 hours minimum Before you think you can carry that firearm and use it to defend yourself or someone else. And I'm talking like that doesn't mean 80 hours of shooting bullets. That's 80 hours that could be divided up amongst like dry firing, dry firing at home, yeah, drawing practice repetition.
Speaker 3:
Loading, loading and unloading.
Speaker 1:
Loading and practicing, just just flipping role play, not with the actual gun, but the role play scenarios was you know, buddy, or something of like can you talk someone down From a confrontation? Like do you even have the verbal skills to back up?
Speaker 3:
Do you have the physical skills? He has the right mindset, yeah, healthy state of mind and during a high pressure situation.
Speaker 1:
Yep. So all I said I told in the email, I told you know one of our representatives like hey, as much you know, I saw that your co-supporter of this bill. I think this is actually a good like a good gun bill. Mm-hmm, like I think this is. It makes sense to require people to spend time on a range I, when they're getting their CDL, I'm not CDL, they're CCW, and I know a lot of people have beef with that. A lot of people are like no man, it's our God, give them right that we can carry whatever we want. I kind of agree. I also agree that there should be some mandatory training. I would love it if it was mandated across the whole damn country.
Speaker 1:
You're at age six, you're going to your 22 rifle course right, Because it used to be like that was required for a lot of school.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, it's part of school to go learn how to shoot 22s and gun safety and I think a part of your safety, big part of that too is it gave people the respect of the tool. Oh yeah, and so Now everybody's training is just on the PS5, where you reach, you respawn and you pull a trigger all day and you can cuss at people while you kill them, and, instead of a reverence for life, a respect for, for the power of the weapon, responsibility for how to have it and keep it safe, you know, and all these things, and that's the two words like. Unfortunately, we've gotten to a place in society where people have to have more and more laws put upon them instead of being Having the agency and self discipline and the teaching within like a home or local community, to just do those things already without. You shouldn't necessarily have to be told, like you shouldn't necessarily have to have a law that says you have to have your guns Locked up. And we're in a home with a child who's five years old so he can't get to him.
Speaker 3:
That should just be something you know that's something you, like, are mindful of and you do. Yeah, right, and now, unfortunately, back to the conversation of the dumbasses. Maybe there is some places and areas where you do have to, at some point, I guess, impose stuff on a society which is also not as like we're saying. It's in within myself. I'm torn to say that yeah, I mean no yeah it's because I'm a two-way hypocrite.
Speaker 3:
I think I should have Tomahawk missiles and nobody else, should you know? Like you know, I'm just saying like, like there's, there's a little bit of that.
Speaker 1:
You know, senator pad everybody.
Speaker 3:
Like, yeah, my bodyguards can have guns, you don't get to have them.
Speaker 1:
I. I mean I think here's the way I view it too is like we used to have a society that educated people on firearms, what like why firearms are important, why America has a firearms culture, mm-hmm, and it was optional for you to partake in. Right, you could, you would learn about it and you would learn firearms safety and how to properly, like, lock them up or unload them. So, even if you didn't want anything to do with them, you knew how to make them safe, you know how to hold a gun and you knew, yeah, and you knew what to do with it and make sure you didn't shoot yourself or someone else, right?
Speaker 1:
and then that went away and People started having to actively choose, to learn about it, before they could even make the decision of if that was something that they wanted to like integrate into their life, and I think that has, like created Nonsense laws that aren't effective at anything and and.
Speaker 1:
I'm all for, I'm a hundred percent for Everyone making the choice. If you decide, hey, I Just don't want guns to be a part of my life. I don't want them in my house, I don't want them around me, I don't want them around my kids. But you know what I've done. I have the education, I have the information I need to make a firearm saved to take if I see a gun on the street. If my kid comes home and someone gave them a gun or whatever gang violence, that's right. I know what to do and like take it and unload it, disassemble it, whatever and Keep, keep things separated that need to be separated. Before you know we have I have that conversation or address it or call the police, right, yeah, I'm like that's your freedom. You have the right to do that. That's your freedom as an American. But that doesn't mean you should be able to take away my freedom to also engage and have them.
Speaker 3:
And and because of where we've gotten to now, it is all or nothing. You kind of have to be like a gun guy Mm-hmm or anti gun, you know instead of like a Some form of middle ground or anywhere between, and we see that in all areas of society.
Speaker 2:
I'll tell me all or nothing on something, yeah.
Speaker 3:
So alright, what are your predictions on?
Speaker 1:
Are we gonna do a gun bill bingo? Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 3:
Are you gonna go down to each one?
Speaker 1:
Alright, guns and ammo tax. Ask in the past. That's an 11% tax. Get used to it. Start budgeting for it. Yep, it's army school safety officers. I'm throwing that 50-50.
Speaker 3:
Because they don't? You could still In there. They've said you can still have armed security officers. They just have to have X amount of training and be certified firearms dealer requirements and permits.
Speaker 1:
That one I'm concerned about because that one has a lot of flexibility and Just the state can decide. It's like it becomes shell issue, like if they want to issue a firearm, like you could be federally, federally firearms licensed dealer. Which means the federal government has said like yep, you can sell guns, and the state can just be like nah, we don't want you to yeah and like that is whack to me. So that one I think is a 50-50 Liability liability insurance mandate. I think that one's gonna win over bro.
Speaker 1:
I legit think that, as a if you own a gun, you should start thinking about how you're gonna pay out the nose or bogus ass Coverage insurance, like you do for a car because, and also cuz coverage, also cuz he got it All, I'll say my thoughts in a second off, because it's a bigger picture.
Speaker 3:
Sure, keep going.
Speaker 1:
Gun purchase tracking. That's also 50-50. I think the Supreme Court's, the Supreme Courts, have already gotten in on like privacy law, mm-hmm, and there's already bills being passed to block this. And like Utah, nevada, arizona, for like, just to make sure it can never be a thing Mm-hmm. So I think that one actually might fail, because we do have. Even the Democrats in Colorado have a strong view on privacy Right, and then church carry band, that is it. I think that one will get struck down. We already have precedent that that's not a valid law. So even if it gets passed, it's immediately blocked day one from the Supreme Court's previous ruling on safe spaces, this, this this is a thing, though.
Speaker 2:
In cities in Denver and in Boulder, a lot of these laws are already in place.
Speaker 1:
They are in like local stuff, right, but like they also aren't kind of like they say they are. But they know that like if they charge you with it and you don't take a plea to guilty Mm-hmm bro then it's like it's over like they aren't gonna be able to be like doing anything.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, at the end of the day, exactly, it's a.
Speaker 1:
It's another thing to throw on to try to get you to plead down. You just accept a guilt like except a alright, I plead guilty, right so and then the house bill. I don't think the house bill is gonna pass. I think the house bills just too big, yeah, and I use the thing to ask an. I do. I mentioned this in the email I said. Today there are more loud and proud Left-leaning firearm owners and ever who aren't like. It's no longer on, it's no longer Kobe change the game.
Speaker 2:
It did roll on the left.
Speaker 1:
Well, it's not just that dude like whether you know, you won't believe it. A lot of people went out and bought guns when they saw BLM Burning down their city and they're like you know what? I'm either scared from the retaliatory violence that might come out of this or I'm just kind of I don't want to be the one dude in the BLM group without a gun.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, you know. Yeah, it was either to fight them or join them.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and so it was like it was like one of those things that, like a lot of people just did and it used to be taboo to be a Democrat and like, like I have a family who Die hard Democrats and they have never let anyone else know that they own guns, but they've kind of confided to me a little bit like I need to show somebody.
Speaker 2:
Please come look at it. What do you?
Speaker 1:
think these are some damn fine pieces. Shame that they're safe Queens, right, let's stick them out. But uh, no, they're. It's now not like a shame thing anymore, like Democrat on a gun I mean look at like there's that whole reddit liberal gun owners that are just like I don't know, I don't know how they.
Speaker 3:
Walk around like super epic. Check out a trans gun owners.
Speaker 1:
Dude. Yeah, that's the same thing.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, it's more extreme, yeah, but anyways, it's a, it's a. It's a wild world and I think that, in Overall, I don't know which one will go, which one won't, but I'll say the ones that will make money will pass, the ones that will lose money won't pass. Lose votes to right because lose and votes as well. You know, gun and ammo tax. Yeah, it's, it's happening right.
Speaker 1:
It's an 11% yeah on all gun sales, all ammo, and in that too covers gun parts.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so, even if it's not the license firearm itself.
Speaker 1:
You're just buying a charging handle, which is the only reason I think it might get repealed. And I'm just sorry, I'm not trying to run you off pat, but it's one of those things of like. The classic argument is like okay, I have a lathe at home, I can laze, you know, a machine lathe. The CNC machine right Is a block of metal at Home Depot. A gun Is a pipe that Home Depot a gun is my 3d printer a gun?
Speaker 1:
right, like when does it become a gun part right, and so it's like one of those things where I could see that being Overturned eventually, because it's this gray area.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
I think that, like the liability insurance, that's a moneymaker that has some big lobbyists who can make a lot of money in there, right, assault weapons ban huge money loser for the state. This plate, you know, like the, even the, even the Pittman Robertson taxes that already come out of gun sales and ammo sales and that's for public lands and like, if you like hiking, you should be a huge fan of the Pittman Robertson act. It started taxing all the hunting stuff, which was a tax that hunters put together and posed on themselves so that they could preserve, you know, outdoor spaces and animals, to keep animals safe and happy and alive. That's what hunters did and then and then so they could hunt them and eat them, but the. I think that it's such a money loser for the state whether whether you, whether you are so forward or so against it.
Speaker 3:
What we know lots of politicians are all about is money, no matter left or right.
Speaker 1:
Well, dude, I can't remember when it was, but it was like a couple years ago, maybe over that, maybe half a decade. Someone did a Just a reflective review of how much kicking magpul out of Colorado cost Colorado in Taxes and it's like they're like with where magpul's at now.
Speaker 3:
They were small potatoes then, yeah like huge, yeah, magpul.
Speaker 1:
I remember when they left back when the the magazine capacity band happened way back in like 20, 2008, maybe 2009, yeah, maybe a little bit later than 2010,. But magpul was like well, we'll just go to Arizona and they did, and at the time I just knew them as like that's the company who makes the cool waffle magazine, right, and I don't even I wasn't even a gun dude, I was just like they make cool stuff that's in on guns and movies, uh-huh. And then they like blew up and the amount of revenue I mean a billion dollar, over a billion dollar, government contract, company defense contractor and the fact that Colorado is just like kicking itself in the head for like it would have covered a couple of these bills.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, exactly right, big time, man.
Speaker 1:
I think other states are seeing that too. Recently too, we were talking about I don't know if it was on the podcast or afterwards, we talked about it last week about how it's like an old school I think it's Remington. Remington's main factory, or Mossburg that they've had for over a hundred years, is leaving New York.
Speaker 1:
Finally because, it's just like, yeah, we we're not gonna keep running our factory here when we have to pay insane Taxes on Purdue like building firearms here. Yeah, right, so and a lot of people I think Springfield's pretty much up and moving out of Illinois now all manufacturing operations. They're like these states are gonna feel it. Yeah, they don't realize how much money this brings in.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and a couple thoughts on some of these bills. This is this is the classic Take an inch and we'll end up taking a mile Sort of deal on on most these. The first one is they just went for the full mile, unfortunately, on the assault weapons ban. We have this kind of classic Assault weapons term that we've been passing around recently to describe rifles, but this Broadens the assault weapons term to include a lot of shotguns, a lot of handguns. Yeah, like I have a handgun that has a threaded barrel on it if I want to put a compensator on it or something else that would not be allowed to be purchased anymore just because it has a threaded barrel. So they went for the full bench. A lot of on this. On this, assault weapons is everything that they have here will turn Colorado into Washington in a heartbeat.
Speaker 2:
Mm-hmm all this carried through. The difficult part that I see with a lot of these bills is they are clearly. This is clearly not a move to protect people that could be harmed by firearms.
Speaker 1:
Exactly, there's nothing that is that's gonna make you safer.
Speaker 2:
Yes, but the goal is to make it difficult To either have firearms or to use them on a regular basis.
Speaker 2:
And here's the thing like lawful gun owners who use their firearms on a regular basis are safe gun owners oh yeah, they are safe gun owners.
Speaker 2:
You don't want to make it more difficult for people To use the firearms that they have purchased, because the one who doesn't is the one that's gonna cause issues, right as far as guns and ammo tax, this is hilarious to me because if you just allocated proper funds, the the taxes within this bill are to go to certain areas within the state, which is a it's a cool idea.
Speaker 2:
But if you just actually allocated funds properly, the tax funds that you're given, you wouldn't need to do this. In the fact that if I want to go train with a weapon Not because I plan to use it, even if I'm just out recreationally shooting that I have to pay taxes on To fund something, you're punishing the person who's using in practicing with their firearm regularly. That's quite interesting to me. The liability insurance mandate while every person who Is a lawful concealed carry user would highly recommend having insurance, most of them would highly, highly, highly recommend having insurance. Again, this is just another mandate to make it difficult and make it more expensive To do something that is a right of yours, which is you can seal, carry a gun.
Speaker 1:
We is a quadruple. We don't even, we don't even encourage having insurance. We encourage having a law firm, right, right, law firm on retainer. That's your, that's your insurance for freedom.
Speaker 2:
Law firm, that is your insurance because, at the end of the day, if if you are using a gun for your self, someone else's Safety or to protect their life, you have to have Law protection or you will lose everything else that you have, except for your life.
Speaker 1:
I'll be honest, like the concern I had About having a kit firearm and carrying it when I was like doing it on the job for security, whether that was like dude, sometimes I did security, arm security for like I did arm security for the nuggets when they would rent out a movie theater, you know I did arm security for cannabis. You know celebrities, all that also. You know. Carry the gun off the job Sealed, carry right and like when you're on the job you like tight because whatever happens, as long as I keep my cool, the company's got companies giving me a lawyer. You know, even if it's like a damn, like this dude in his you shot this guy and his family was actually like Millionaires in Denver. They're suing the hell out of you and it's like alright, well, the company lawyer is gonna cover me on that right.
Speaker 1:
Yeah or you know, when you're in law enforcement it's like all right, well, you know, you have your law enforcement agency, it's pretty much gonna do internal affairs, investigation, all that right on your own. Though there is a legit fear of like dude, even if I do everything right and I'm a hundred percent justified which hopefully you always are a hundred percent justified right. You should never be. I don't even know if there's 70. I don't believe in 70% justification.
Speaker 1:
No it's either a legal justified shoot or it's not. But the Even if you do that, there's a good chance you're gonna get owned over by the system and I think having legitimate like a law firm, knowing there's attorneys who can be here in under 12 hours to you know, represent me and you know help me essentially handle this issue and I don't have to pay a dime out of that. I know this sounds like an advertiser, but it like, I think, the peace of mind it gives me and the in knowing like if my wife Acts in self-defense, she's covered on it too right.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and it's like that also gives me, because my biggest concern is like damn what if I would have been justified in it. But, like the dude, like it seems over, but my wife, scared as she just brains, it is like, oh, now it's like either we cover this up or like I'm just kidding, that's a joke, don't take that out of context. But it's. But now it's like okay, even if she did that, like we got a law firm who's gonna come up and like look it over, represent us and, like you know, stand up for us in a case of law. And so all I said like the peace of mind thing goes a long way. This is not that.
Speaker 1:
No, this is if you shoot someone, your insurance pays that person or their family damages.
Speaker 1:
This is car insurance, which they're going to still sue you on top of that and and I guarantee you this, liability insurance won't give you a new gun. I'll say I'll say this actually I don't know and what scenario you need it, but if everybody had a gun insurance, they're like our guns shot each other, mm-hmm. I had like. I was like, well, you, technically you shot my gun and I got, I got a free gun out of it. Let's see some ways of playing that system to get some new guns.
Speaker 2:
Insurance, yeah, yeah yeah, at the end of the day, there are Are very few decent things in here, but overall this, like I said, I don't think yeah.
Speaker 1:
I don't think there's a single thing in here. I can see where, like, there's the intention of it, but I don't think there's anything valuable in these laws. And again, dude, where is the laws expanding the state's funding for Institutions that can house and look after you free of charge if you need to be on suicide watch? Right where there's not a stigma? Like, dude, you know what? Like, do you know what happens if you go into a hospital and self so, like, admit yourself on suicide watch? You're gonna sit in that lobby, you're gonna sit in the waiting room like a fucking fool, yeah, and they're gonna watch you and the nurse and the current people are like, and you're gonna do that and like.
Speaker 1:
Sometimes I've heard people say like, yeah, I submit, I admitted myself, walked in, said I'm, I think I'm gonna kill myself, I can't stop thinking about it. And the person at the front desk didn't even look up at him. All right, go ahead, take a seat, yeah. And then people just like some people have gotten up and gone out and try to do it afterwards because they don't, unless you're rich and can afford.
Speaker 3:
The nice centers, yeah. Private centers, yeah. You're in, you're in trouble For sure.
Speaker 1:
So, anyways, I think that's where all this needs to go, all this money, yep.
Speaker 3:
But why Would people empower want to take away your guns, dude? Because they're looking out for your best interest, right, yes, yes, I think that the next section, the sixth segment of the show, is called men with guns are scary when men have had enough that sounds Sometimes a little.
Speaker 1:
Maybe can we workshop that one. Yeah, it's like Disgruntled people, don't get pushed over anymore, right Okay?
Speaker 3:
I know it's, it's a mouthful, but um, so there was a. We're looking at a couple different instances through a fairly recent history of of past past 80 years.
Speaker 1:
Yeah and 100 years.
Speaker 3:
Yep, when the people have had to take up arms to Defend what they thought was right, and that happens a lot of places all the time, but you don't really hear about it happening like and I mean worldwide. Right, yeah, you would, but these are some things that you aren't taught about in school and these are some things that you maybe never heard about, and they are the battle of Athens and the battle of Blair Mountain. So a little bit of story time on Sometimes in recent history when in America we've had guys Take up arms, and now also, I realize the shift we're making in this show also like having Depending on your mindset, or how we're talking or how you're taking what we're saying. We're not making an argument for Uprising or rebellion or militia, like Taking over or, like you know, we're not saying if you don't like how your life is, that you take up arms. But these are some little case studies maybe on these are.
Speaker 1:
These are definitely scenarios when a person's life was at risk, right Like, and not just one person or, and this is like a thing. Yeah, like your, your community was at serious potential to be like terrorized and harmed by individuals who had like Malice intent and they had all the power and yeah, they had the power to essentially Make you helpless right.
Speaker 3:
So the battle of Athens, not Athens Greece, but Athens Georgia, nope.
Speaker 2:
I see I've been Tennessee right right. Well, there's sorry.
Speaker 3:
There's the right, the Athens.
Speaker 2:
There's an at the.
Speaker 3:
Georgia, it's my Athens, Tennessee Also I start to mix up all those states down in that that yonder part of the world anyways, but there was during World War two. All the the majority of men are out doing the Lord's work.
Speaker 1:
Fight the Nazis your husband, your, your husbands and your young men are gone, and the only people who stayed back were kids, male kids, right or Older men who were deemed like necessary to keep society running because they were in a position of like law enforcement. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:
Exactly. And so and I'm gonna, could you kind of a brief fly over these stories and you guys should look into them on your own. But the battle of Athens basically, while all these guys are out World War two fighting, they come home and their sheriff, their local sheriff, has kind of gotten a big head taken over. It's gotten real corrupt in their systems and they were doing really predatory policing activities where they were. When people were coming Passing through town, they'd pull them over, give them a ticket for something that you know. They'd give them a A ticket for something they weren't even doing and make them pay it. And so they were. They were they're extorting.
Speaker 1:
They're extorting people for their money. They were abusing the fact that they had guns and there is no men around to do anything about it exactly, and so that's kind of what started going on.
Speaker 3:
And as they progressed in, the power started to also Rig the elections and whenever and they do a lot of voter intimidation and rigging of elections and the Ben came, there were actually men who even wanted to. They heard about this happen. They were seeing letters from it. They're like they were some even, I think, requested leaves to come home to come deal with it. But so all these guys start coming back and they're not taking it, not having it anymore, and so the things have come to a head where there's a big vote in town going down and they have put.
Speaker 3:
They have their candidate, the, the men who've come back have the candidate they want to now run their community and the sheriff has the guy who he's he's pocket was it positioned yeah and so they end up have them to go to arms on the day of voting and they it was 30 to 60 Armed militia guys throughout the day. Just got back from war.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so I would say it was. It's almost like not a militia, yeah they're like, they're fresh, yeah, like they. They have wildly more experience like I just killed the guys who are doing this in a foreign country.
Speaker 2:
You think we're already mad, yep, yep.
Speaker 3:
They were warmed up, to say the least. They really were, and so the sheriff was catching word of it. He's getting nervous about it. He brings in 200 deputies to kind of monitor the people and the Things are getting kind of heated all day long. And the really the culminating point of this is where all the ballot boxes are being taken off to be counted. But a couple of the ballot boxes have been Ended up in the sheriff's office and so they were swapping them and they were, so they'd taken them and they were doing some dirty voting and the men opened fire on the station and there was. They said there's, there's tons of gunfire. Frank of Matt, I think it was like a couple hours, yeah, back and forth, back and forth, and which is a? A couple hours is a very long time in a gunfight. Oh yeah, the gunfight supposed to be like six seconds long, right, not like hours long, and so you can just imagine these like sheriff deputies, like crap in their pants, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:
And these like these guys the World War two, that's just got home, and they're just like smoking cigarettes and you know, just chilling, like we can do this all day. They're like that. They're like. I'm used to like a mg42 Bull auto on me right now.
Speaker 3:
I'm used to tanks and frozen my toes off the best stone and so they end up. They also there. They're throwing a model top cocktails and they're firebombing the police station. They get in there, they, they catch them in the act of Jacking with these ballot boxes and they take the. They Rescue the ballot boxes, take them out and they go take and get a fair count and their guy wins. He gets into power. They start straightening out their community.
Speaker 3:
What I think is what we're crazy about this is there were many injuries but no fatalities, and the majority of injuries, with the severe ones, were all the deputies, like the Militia guys. They did, they came out okay and so this was an example of guys had Come together and said this is Enough, like we're not gonna let this guy Manipulate us and take advantage of us and it's time for him to go, and this is a very extreme act. There's other diplomatic ways of doing these things, any of other protections now, but this was a small town, old town, a situation. I think that there's a good like 18 minute full story on YouTube where you can go and see the whole, the whole story, and One of the guys was quoted saying something along the lines of oh, it was um. What was it he said? Basically, you know, I didn't go fight for like freedom for the last couple years, just to come back home and Not have it.
Speaker 2:
How's somebody doing that same shit? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:
So we weren't having it. So that was. That was the battle of Athens. Check it out, learn more about it. I think it's. I think it's just a cool story of dudes who were, who stood up for what, what they believed in, what was right. But the battle of Blair Mountain happened a couple years before that, 1921 again. Homies just got back from fighting Yep.
Speaker 1:
Yep exactly.
Speaker 3:
So a theme in both these stories is post-war. You have people who have seen the other sides of. They've seen, they've gone and seen the world. They've seen the, the things in the world that are not America, yeah, and they've come back to what? To America, where they believe it's land of the free, the home of brave in a place where man can have his own agency.
Speaker 3:
And so in West Virginia there were coal miners and they were. This is right around the time when unions were trying to form and they weren't able to form and and the these mining companies would only hire non-union workers because then they were really able to put them into kind of indentured servitude situations. They could have really poor work conditions and the mines had their Pinkerton's.
Speaker 1:
They had their Pinkerton gang of armed thugs to have exactly you.
Speaker 3:
They had armed men, who were, who had all the power and the Stanford Prison experiment.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, yeah work for real. And so they had. No, these miners had no legal protections and no ways to get out of the impoverished situations there. And these mining camps were I mean, they were full-blown communities with families living in them, you know they. They operated autonomously, but underneath the governance of these companies. And so there was this lady, mother Jones, this 83 year old woman, who was a a big-time, outspoken advocate for unions and she would go around to these places and kind of as preacher and a rebel rouser, fighting for the rights of unions and forming unions.
Speaker 3:
Because lots of times, any time a union tried to form, you'd have union busters. They'd come in, they'd break it up. They'd I mean, they'd break it up physically. They would do anything they could, from From the behind-the-scenes stuff all the way up to just coming into a crowd and beating everybody to a pulp. You, and so I, these people, could not get any traction on their rights. And it all came to a head when mother Jones and her people had really started getting traction with forming unions and forcing some of these companies to have to let the miners unionize. And Over there was 10,000 men, 10,000 miners took up arms and on Blair Mountain that's a buttload of dudes that's an army, yeah and so, and also, by the way, the term redneck actually comes from this story.
Speaker 3:
Oh, really, because they they would wear these red bandanas and so they were redneckers. And so, you know, lots of times now we have this term redneck and it's derogatory term towards, you know, poor white people, but it it stems from this group of people who were. That was how they identify who they were with and who they are part of. But During this big skirmish, it was Blair Mountain they had there was, like I said, 10,000 miners, tons of these Pinkerton types and Company men, soldiers, as well as I think some National Guard got involved a little bit locally there was also. This is also when dudes had their own airplanes.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, there was there was, there was people.
Speaker 3:
There was, I realized this this battle Didn't only wage on the ground. It it was waged in the air. This is crazy. This happened in America a hundred years ago. And so there's guys flying around airplanes and Droping stuff on the miners and there's there's firing back and forth. They said that over a million rounds were fired during this in exchange. That is a huge battle. That's a huge battle and 11% tax on a million rounds, my god, you know. So money to be made. It might have priced the miners out of the ability to do, to revolt yeah, something to think about. But so in the end, there was around a hundred people were killed in this and they Unions did start getting more traction started forming and they, for these mining communities, they were able to move forward with and get get more rights, safe working conditions, you know get rid of your compensation get rid of the camp.
Speaker 3:
Get rid of the camp and there's an awesome podcast called martyr made and this guy, drill Cooper, he does a full breakdown on this story. It's called who's America, I think it's. Usually his podcast are like six hours long or he gets into one story and just does the whole thing and he Excuse me, it's an awesome breakdown of really all the details of the inner workings of local sheriffs and the companies and and what was going on in Washington and it really lays it out for you what all happened and really gives both sides the story a Fair shake in a good way where you can get having objective view is going on as well as just knows about a Incredible thing that happened in.
Speaker 3:
America that I think a lot of people don't even know happened. No, dude.
Speaker 1:
I did in the last week. I heard about them, watched, like, the videos on these subjects. It's just one of those things of like. I never knew any. This occurred, but this is like. This is bread and butter.
Speaker 1:
What America is? You know, families, men and women recognizing what is happening is wrong, mm-hmm, and we have exhausted the diplomatic Options here, right, and so what is left, like? What is the only thing? That, like the language that they are using they, you know, the corrupt sheriff or these mining companies language they are using as violence. They are not using diplomacy, right, so therefore, the only language that is left to us is violence, right, and there's a lot of times where people use that excuse for any kind of Whether it's a good or whether it's a just or unjust cause, right, and there's like a very morally gray, I think, term that a Riding is the language of the voice of the unheard, uh-huh, and it's like one of those things are like you could say, that's like that's what happens when you don't hear out a community or Population and you keep on repressing them and they will return, they will resort to a riot, or you know violence to be heard, and so I think, like these are cases of like justice needed to be, like needed to happen and no one else was gonna do it.
Speaker 1:
And so who's gonna seek out justice at the end of the day if it's not you? Right, and I think something to recognize too is like it is one of those things of like yeah, is it. Is it okay that, like the fallout of these things, where the community got, like not the community, but the infrastructure around the community was destroyed from this, from these events, a little bit, it's like, and it depends like it at that point, is there even a community structure when it gets to this point? Is at that point, like maybe it does need to be dismantled?
Speaker 1:
Versus, like you know, it was wrong that they did this and it was wrong that they took the flames, it was wrong that they, you know, used weapons and fire bombs on the sheriff's office. Right, like you could. I can see the argument against the actions, but I disagree with it because I think, like, at the end, you know, justice had to be heard and like a lot of people will use these as, like you know, ground to stand on for when they commit violence of what they perceive as injustice. Right, and it might be too far right, and so I just really want to make sure that you know, people know when they're listening to us. We're not saying like, hey, if you think you've been wronged, you should burn down your city.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you should you should, do you to do commit violence? Yeah, like no, I definitely think that there's ways of continually like, seeking diplomacy, but like, if we look at a situation where, like I'll be honest, man, if you came to me and told me of like any a city in America that was going through something similar to this and they had gotten to this point where, like, honestly, imagine today, like a group, a demographic of people in America, american citizens pay their taxes and and they're being forced to live in, basically, concentration camps that are created by a company, oh, in what world would you not think it's a just for them to rebel against that?
Speaker 1:
you know, I mean and I Think that's just something that people need to consider of like, when is that line and seriously think about it, and because a lot of people will always be there ready to instigate it and jump over Right and push that line before it's ready for it, and there's a lot of people who, when it's time to act, will still not want to and still look down upon that action, and it's kind of.
Speaker 1:
It really does, I think, rest with the individual right. But all I said, I think these two examples Really speak to the testimony of like a community Standing up for themselves when everything else has been exhausted and there wasn't an alternative, there wasn't another option. And I would just caution, you know, I caution the companies, the corporations, I caution people in political office From forgetting this, because I the truth is right now I talked to a lot of veterans who were from like the last, you know, 20 years, gone back from doing war and doing war in a hellscape, and those guys are not happy. Yeah, those guys are pretty pissed and they get pissed when they come back and they see America not looking like what they were told they were fighting for and the last thing you want is to start a bunch of yeah, the last thing you want is to start pushing those guys because further and further to the point where they're not being hurt.
Speaker 2:
Athens and Blair Mountain are the results right?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, where they feel like they don't have a choice but to do that because also the other thing about a veteran type community is like Lot in lots of cases those guys would be the last to Pick up a gun.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and cuz they know war is off, because they know what they know, what they know, the consequence of that action.
Speaker 3:
Not that they won't do it, but, like you know, they they have the resolve to say I don't care about, like I've seen. I've seen guys who get Getting heated, like someone's getting heated in their face about something. And this, this one guy, he is a green beret, but they're talking about all this stuff, all these right stuff and and they're talking about it forth, and he just ended the conversation just saying that's fine, you think that way. I mean, that's like you're allowed to. That's why I fought over there.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so you could have that viewpoint.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, just very calmly, like the other person's losing their mind. I mean you know I that's fine, like you have that right and that's good.
Speaker 1:
But like, here's the other thing. Like all, none of us at this table are veterans right. And we have a lot of friends who were in the military, currently in the military, and if those dudes started coming to us is saying, all right, man, it's time to take action. That is the litmus test for most citizens in America you know.
Speaker 3:
I mean, have we consider what they're saying? Yeah, just like what's going on.
Speaker 1:
I would trust what they're saying more off, like more than I would a politician right.
Speaker 2:
You know what I?
Speaker 1:
mean it's like one of those things like just be aware, like we have a very strong I say strong, higher than most other nations of a population that Knows what war is and has been to war and has a litmus test for justified versus unjustified and corrupt government versus, you know, pristine government, and you just want those guys to always be on the litmus test side of like no, that's all right, right, no, that's hey, that's your freedom, that's your prerogative. I know I still got my rights.
Speaker 3:
And I can.
Speaker 1:
I can live my life the moment you take that away from those guys, right, that's when you're gonna start having an issue and you should do some self-reflection of Are we being American with our values?
Speaker 3:
here Are we headed in the right direction.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and what's crazy is that, with with every great war that's happened, or every, I bet you all of these battles, it was just this build-up and this build-up and this build-up, and it just took one small instance that sparked. Oh yeah this wildfire, you know like one guy Gets mad and he pushes back, and then five other guys get mad and they start pushing back and then you got everybody going back home to get their guns because they're like we're. We're done with this.
Speaker 2:
You know it's like once you stretch the rubber band far enough and it breaks, you don't put it back together. Yeah, like.
Speaker 1:
Um, and so, yeah, all I said do like I don't know. I don't have the litmus test other than my own individual freedoms and how I perceive those and my access to them, right, but so I don't have an example of anything right now that I think is like today we're reaching a battle of Athens, you know what I mean. Today we're we're approaching this West Virginia mine wars. I see across our country things that you know, that that population of Uh veterans with a very, you know, sensitive scale to what is right or wrong, and they're in tune with that. I see them Seeing things that they see is wrong and like I think a big one is like Look at the border. Like there's a crap load of guys who are retired veterans that have mobilized other men in their community, other and women this isn't just a men thing either now.
Speaker 1:
Like we have more women who are trained with firearms now that we've ever had before, right, um, and they're going to the border to do patrols and look out for the cartel and stop human smuggling, because they don't think the federal government's doing anything about it Right. And it's like one of those things is like Do you want them doing that? Right? That's no, I don't right. I want those guys to be like you know what it's, it's a bummer what's happening down there, but I trust that our institutions are gonna, you know, do what needs to be done to correct the injustices occurring and Dude it's. I mean, I was just watch, I watched a whole long documentary Of essentially just these groups that are going down there for a week long at a time, going back home Refreshing, going back to do a patrol another week, and then they're. They're from all across the country. I'm just like that's not good.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's not what you want dude? You're stretching or over?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, exactly because doing that also you do, even if you have righteous cause and like level-headed people, those sorts of things always attract the fringe. You don't want to like you know the like you just, yeah, you started to attract some fringe stuff, people or ideals or things too that latch on to the certain parts of that and that you, that you don't want in a big issue too Not an issue, right, but like a big Telltale sign that those guys aren't in.
Speaker 1:
The wrong Is that when they are leaving their community to go to the communities near the border, the communities around the border are not telling them to leave. Right the communities at the border like oh, we're happy you're here because the government's not coming to do nothing about it. You know? I mean, it is just like that's a bad sign.
Speaker 1:
Yeah that's not what you want. It's so. All that said, I think like we need to be aware and vigilant of that and we need to make sure that, first and foremost, freaking right your representatives Be allowed be a voice to constituent. Right is my year.
Speaker 3:
I've never the sword.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I've never written or called anyone for anything before and you know, when it comes to these firearm laws that are looking on the books, I'm just like dude overreach. This is, this is bonkers, yeah, and.
Speaker 2:
They do not care about your rights anymore.
Speaker 1:
And if I, if that's, if I've never done that in my, you know, 30 years on this earth, I feel like there's other people who are have been pushed further right and I have been doing it for a while and you don't want them to feel like they've exhausted that diplomacy, right?
Speaker 1:
so anyways, that's. That's a mixed soapbox on that one, but um Didn't do just a close, you know, I figure, you know this is a long podcast but, uh, you know, covered a lot of cool fun things. I guess, uh, you know, just each one of us maybe pop off with uh, what you're hoping to buy. I'll say this you know I'm looking at the sig sour 716. I Uh, you know it's a 308 rifle, 16 inch barrel. Trust like the reliability test on it. Pretty good, um, and it's relatively lightweight for like the 308 platform. So I'm looking at that just to have as like a Reliable, like can take that 308, hunting, legally hunt everything in the state of color out of with that caliber um, as well as like a good range uh recreational gun as well as a great weapon for If things hit the fan.
Speaker 1:
You know it's uh, I'm looking at that one. I've seen some really great deals online. It's in, it's like third generation. So they've worked out, you know, six hours, worked out all of the kinks from the first generation. So that's what I'm hoping to to acquire here soon. What about you boys?
Speaker 2:
Uh, I've been looking at. I got rid of my my last AR. Um, I would like to do another build, um, probably 12 and a half inch. I'm looking at a by a, likely a bcm upper and lower, with a Criterion barrel.
Speaker 1:
Um.
Speaker 2:
I'd also looked at Sons of liberty, for an upper and lower. They've got some pretty great stuff, um, and then, uh yeah, I'll put a suppressor on it, but um, do you think it?
Speaker 1:
what caliber are you thinking for that 12? 5?
Speaker 2:
Uh, just a 5, 5, 6. I thought about, I thought about a 300, but, um, I just don't want to pay that much for ammo every time I go to the ranch. You know like if I had one on the side, that would be one thing, but to pay that much for ammo every time I got a range, just it's like I want to be able to train it, I want to abuse it and, uh, I want to Shoot the crap out of it. Not like, not regret every time I pull the trigger.
Speaker 1:
That's a dollar, that's a dollar, that's a dollar.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, what about you, pet man? I am Not. Nothing's currently on the horizon, which is probably a healthy thing. It is absolutely healthy thing Um because I I'm not lacking, not lacking in supplies.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, your white is grateful right now.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, there's that too. They got to keep my marriage intact. Yeah, um, I feel like I've right now it's. There's a couple of like It'd be saving for some, some of those big like Really actually on the hunting front, like they're just one. I really want the Super Black Eagle three from Benelli.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah, Hutton ducks.
Speaker 3:
Nice and that one, though it just takes a little bit of coin. A little more saving up for but.
Speaker 1:
I'm.
Speaker 3:
Italian goons. I do like that one. Every time I shot that gun it's just like feels like the right one. So the day I buy it I will find the other one I wanted.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, after you get that one, they'll be the next one. It's a little bit.
Speaker 3:
No one's a down the line thing, for sure, for sure. I think, just improving my other, what Just make the stuff I have cooler? And maybe just actually go use it. I got something too. It's like if I, if I, spent as much time like buying guns as I did shooting guns, I'd be much better off.
Speaker 2:
See, I'm a big like half. Just a small number of guns, but use them a lot Like you're.
Speaker 1:
Here's the thing, man. You and I were in our utility phase, like kids, exactly Well, you, just you, and I just have the guns that meet a specific purpose and use case. Yeah, pat, over here, he's in, he's, he passed that. He's in the recreational.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, they don't all need a use case. I'm in the sporting life, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Exactly so. But anyways, I hope you all enjoyed the show, appreciate you taking time to listen. Definitely again, you know, plug that subscription. Let us know how we're doing. We really do cherish the feedback. We love comments and interacting on YouTube. We try to have funny back and forth with people. But, yeah, just continue to let us know how we're doing and we really appreciate you can out there taking the time to listen and follow along with us in this, but anything else till next time.