The Mick and Pat Show: Shooting, Safety, and Camaraderie: A Day at the Range
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Picture this: It's early morning, you're holding a warm doughnut in one hand and a coffee in the other. You're about to embark on an adrenaline-fueled day at your favorite private shooting range. This is the kind of weekend we live for, and we're excited to bring you along for the ride, share our stories, and laughter-filled camaraderie we share.
We'll take you through our shooting drills, and explore the importance of understanding the functionality of different firearms and the discipline required for chambered gun carrying.
So, buckle up, and let's navigate this exciting journey of shooting, safety, training, and personal responsibility together. Prepare to be astonished, enlightened, and entertained in equal measure. - Craig (Producer and Coffee Tech)
Attorneys For Freedom Law Firm: Attorneys on Retainer Program
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Pat Yo.
Speaker 2:All that lead up and you still didn't say Nick, Nick, there we go. They do, my man.
Speaker 1:Oh good, Doing pretty good right now.
Speaker 2:I'm. I'm feeling real good. Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling real good and it's primarily because I feel like we had such a stuffed weekend that, like I don't feel like it was very restful, was not, and I did not get much leeway on the usual things I work on the weekend, such as like this podcast and like the. The infrastructure around developing the podcast usually takes up my Saturday morning and afternoons, and not none of that got done this week, because what were we doing on Saturdays? Bright and early, bushy tailed.
Speaker 1:Well, bright and early, I was buying a doughnut. But shortly after that, how early, were you buying the doughnut when we met in the parking lot? Because there was a doughnut truck.
Speaker 2:Oh dude, I was going to say I got up at like I got up at six to quietly pull all my ammo boxes and rifle cases out from underneath the bed. Yeah, I pulled the, I was all those are in the bottom of the lake. I don't have any of that under my bed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not, that's not how you keep guns. But I, yeah, similarly, I was rubber rolling at six am Because I had to come to the headquarters swap a truck because the other truck had the car seats so I could get the car seats to my wife so that I could have the minivan which we used to roll down to the shooting range. And so, yeah, the it took us a little while to get down there, but that was OK. So it was, it was kind of nice because you know it was like in the morning.
Speaker 2:Wait, wait, wait. You still haven't said, like, what we were doing on Saturday. I'm still leading up to it.
Speaker 1:Oh, you lead up to it, you know, because it was nice because usually you just have a time you got to be somewhere, like we're so ruled by the watch on our wrist. Sometimes, as Americans, you know, sometimes I appreciate Mexican time, I appreciate Arab time, I appreciate Jamaican time. I mean time, exactly. And you know it's like you get there when you get there, you get done when you get done. And so, anyways, in the bright and early, I was buying a donut. Shortly after that, we were stopping at the gas station because we needed gas. You were headed to the hardware store for some paint, Other guys were headed to get some burritos. Well, by the way, those burritos cheese was great potatoes are great.
Speaker 2:I don't know about you, but me and my man. Yeah double L.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:Burnt bacon, bro. The bacon was crispy to black and the bacon, oh yeah, it was like it was the burnt flavor really ruined everything for you.
Speaker 1:I thought it was one of the best I've had in a long time.
Speaker 2:OK, hey, maybe you might have been just a couple, maybe maybe the new guy was making yours and I'll be honest, like both of us were like damn. This tastes like someone put like charcoal in my burrito with cheese and potatoes.
Speaker 1:Man, I'll have to try it again just to see if it redeems itself. And then five bucks.
Speaker 2:I don't know, man. There's other breakfast burritos that are way more reliable for less, but they're not that big for five bucks.
Speaker 1:It's true, those were big burritos. They were big, they're like pushing Chipotle Gerth. And anyways, we met up with some other compadres, compatriots, and we rolled down to our new favorite shooting range which is private and you can't join us suckers, I'm right.
Speaker 2:You can't tell me I can't shoot more than one round per second. You can't tell me I can't practice my draw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't tell me that I can't lay on the ground and roll wall shooting down range like Patrick Swayze or Will Smith.
Speaker 2:I'm calling, I'm calling, I'm calling. I'm calling the land that you're trying that. I'm kind of glad that you tried that, because I once tried the die hard not die hard, sorry the mill Gibson dive. So I was like, no, like the dive under your belly, yeah and roll Uh-huh, yeah the rolling Feral roll.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all your shooting and bread and 92 FS.
Speaker 2:My buddy dude I do. Last week I've been talking about some boundaries with. When we went out to the range once I was like, dude, I've never shot this 90 and 92 FS. Can I replicate Mill Gibson's dive and roll out of the Christmas tree park scene and lethal weapon? And he was like, yeah, man, go for it. And he recorded me while I jumped and dived and I was like rolling on the ground, shooting. Well, there is nothing more disorientating than like being irons on the paper and then rolling and then those irons are like in the dirt, yeah, and like you're just you're trying to like invert your controller, shooting into the dirt and into the flyway above you.
Speaker 1:It was the most like it was the most insane thing.
Speaker 2:Like I genuinely think like a good practice would be like taking your gun round, not chambered, doing a like a roll, like just a front roll, side roll, whatever is a dry run, and then try to chamber around and shoot because the roll really discombobulates your ability to aim the irons. Like you don't realize that till you try it and then you're like the hell is, what direction of my is going on. Anyways, I was proud of you for doing that, because it made me feel validated.
Speaker 1:Thank you you. Sometimes you got to have fun and I'll tell you this, I think I just broke my chair. Anyways, keep rolling with it. It was safe, fun still. I was, you know. So here's the other. Here's what I love about a being on a private range. Here's the things about it that are dope. You know who you're shooting with. You don't have randos showing up around you, coming and going. You also don't have, you know. So here's the deal. If you're doing like your standard public land shooting, range shoot, yeah, you've got. You've got randos coming through and you have really typically no range safety officers going on. If you're at a private range, indoor or outdoor, where you're going to pay money for it, there's a guy standing there, there's a fire, there's a you know, a fire marshal, whatever you know a range safety officer who is directing everything range hot, range cold and all you can really do is stand with your toes on a line and shoot straight down at your target. Until he says range cold, you go down there, check it, you come back, reload your stuff and while you're walking out there the whole time in the back of your head I don't know about you, but for me, when you're shooting with other strangers in the back of your head. In the back of your head I'm kind of thinking I could feel a numbing and piercing pain in my spine at any moment, because there's like 28 guns pointed down, range of people who have no idea their proficiencies. So that's in the back of your head. It's loud the whole time. They're shooting the whole time. And here's, go and get me wrong. I love a gun range, but what you get to do when you have your own deal going on is you couldn't even be in the range one guy at a time. You can run a dynamic drill. You can be practicing more than just your marchmanship of pointing shooting at a target, which everybody should do a whole lot, because you got to do that a whole lot to even be able to actually hit anything. But also then, if you're going to be, you know, running some scenarios. One, it's just freaking fun to be moving through multiple targets, being the only person that are doing it, you know, while guys are washing some pressures on, and it's just safe, it's fun, and you, I think you get way better training out of it.
Speaker 2:I would say that most people are unaware that they have probably surpassed the utility of a shooting range like the standard shooting shooting range and what it offers, usually within the first hundred rounds of a gun they're practicing on. And I'm not saying like just the first hundred rounds of, like just going to the range to have fun and shoot a rifle or rent a gun or something like that. Like a lot of new gun buyers, like they get their AR or they get their pistol and I guess I what's next? I guess I pay, for I pay 30, 50 bucks for an hour at this range. I don't know how far the target's supposed to be, I don't really know how to measure, like if I'm improving, why I might be not as accurate, but I'm more accurate sometimes.
Speaker 1:And like I really do think within a hundred rounds you have you can easily outpace what they allow you to do at the range For sure, and because, especially with this standard indoor right and let's say, here's the deal If you're just purely target practice shooting, then you have 40 years ahead of you of refining that craft. Meaning, if you're just going out there to poke holes in paper at certain distances, you still there's. You know, you can do that forever and you can refine it to the point where you can stack, you know, 10 rounds in a quarter at 75 yards with a pistol right or whatever like that thing. But what you have maybe never practiced ever in your life is getting that gun out of your pants quickly or acquiring a target quickly out of your fanny pack.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Oh, dude, the, the locomotion. I love practicing it, but the locomotion of practicing grabbing a zipper, pulling it across, pulling the gun out of said confinement, is A unique one that requires way more fine motors than just pulling your shirt up or just going from a low ready to aiming. And I love it, dude, but you can't do that at most ranges most ranges are. That's a no-no, it's a big no-no.
Speaker 1:Which I get, because there's a lot of idiots who just don't, and I like it because I'm not trying to catch an earhole.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to catch a or a time ill through, you know, yeah, through the plexiglass Range wall. Yeah, into my knee, yeah in my mind too.
Speaker 1:I'm always wondering like.
Speaker 2:It's fucking plexiglass some fiberglass.
Speaker 1:They got this on sale after COVID, you know.
Speaker 2:You mean to tell me that you? You mean to tell me that, uh, you know green tip M855 going at close to three thousand feet per second can punch through you know most body armor, but it's not gonna punch through your like quarter inch yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't glass wall and steel plate, but not through your glass. Yeah, I agree, I agree, and I think that it would hold up to a lot, but I'm not trying to risk it. Yeah and uh. Yeah, if you can, you know, shoot a fly off a horse's ass at a hundred yards. That's great, and I think that's actually a really awesome skill to have, especially if you get the drop. Mm-hmm, exactly.
Speaker 2:We don't live in a society that looks kindly to you shooting first, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yes, like your, your recon sniper days. That's awesome and I wish I was one of those. But Fortunately, in the current American legal system, you have to react exactly pro act and, honestly, it keeps us all a little safer, as far as you know, if we could just go around Wild Weston. But what's the FBI stat again on like it's like 95% of Altercations or deadly altercations happen within three to seven yards, or whatever. That it you know I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know that for the freel stat, but basically Lots of stuff happens within seven yards of your body. You're not Amen something on your wrist like Steve McQueen in the Great Escape Track in the motorcycle taking the long shot with your Luger. So your actual marksmanship. Marksmanship is important but it might come second to your mobility training, meaning your ability to Draw something out, move, manipulate it correctly get into concealment or cover. Yeah, and then at which point, if you have you know 10 to 17 rounds and something, you're gonna hit it Some, you know that's that's also not a guarantee.
Speaker 2:It's not a guarantee.
Speaker 1:But I what I'm saying is, as those distances close in, so close the the the reaction time Might start to outweigh the marksmanship.
Speaker 2:sure, yeah, right at a point there's definitely a point of intersection Mm-hmm where your marksmanship is, for sure, good enough and it becomes far more important about your reaction time and ability to move quickly. That said, I Think we saw a lot of the former on Saturday you know, and I'll say this, I I Feel pretty good about my ability to shoot Mm-hmm, feel pretty good about being able to switch on and the like. It doesn't take me a lot of effort, mm-hmm, to to put rounds on paper and to a pretty reliable group.
Speaker 1:You know a group that I like I'm not embarrassed or ashamed right that is in the size of another man's torso at.
Speaker 2:At 10 yards further back than right paper right right, whereas when I feel like I got to turn it on because I'm under pressure and I really am trying to move quickly, I feel, like you know, there are times when I'm like, all right, I'm having to actually recite some of the mantra to myself of feel that trigger reset. Don't try to find the dot, let the dot come over the paper. You know stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Like look at the target and bring that thing to your eyes.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah, and I think what we saw on Saturday was a lot of guys who credit to them. They were very honest, they were very open and these aren't guys who have been, you know, carrying guns for years on their hips waiting for an opportunity. These guys were like pretty humble, like hey man, I haven't done a lot of pistol stuff. I want to do more. I want to get to a point where I feel confident carrying it in a security, you know, volunteer setting. I'm here to learn and I saw a lot of guys really speeding up on that reaction time and I mean you I don't know about you, bro, but like I felt like it was very like a switch of like oh, he's going fast.
Speaker 1:Also, he's missing like five out of 10.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and it was one of those things of like that's okay. If there's any time, if there's any place to make those kind of mistakes, it's here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that was that was even me on our like on the. I wish I had the actual stats in front of me on the if I recorded how it. Like we ran a particular drill where you were moving, you shot 10 shots. You shot Barricade, you shot six targets and you shot 10 shots, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a three rounds through different positions of a barricade, you know stair, step, barricade, and then it was around in four more targets. Yep, in a row, one in each, and then a step pivot run to cover two in the body, one in the head, at about probably. I would say like 25 yards, yeah, or maybe 20 yards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was at that point. So it was 10 rounds and six targets. Yeah, and the the first time we did the drill, we actually didn't pull a trigger. I think most people ran through it like I have my own.
Speaker 2:Oh, you could sneak you with it.
Speaker 1:I don't put that, that's like putting watered.
Speaker 2:That's like putting like the water that you used to rinse a coffee pot out in your mug. I don't do no.
Speaker 1:three milligrams and another people say six I don't even do six milligrams, I do 12.
Speaker 2:18.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes 24, when I'm trying to just like ruin a night.
Speaker 2:Well like I hate myself right now. Look at this, look at you in the mirror. Yeah, you've, you've achieved nothing. I just throw four pouches in and I just wait till I throw up. Yeah, for those of you listening and confused I offered something to make and he something.
Speaker 1:a Zen offered a little. It has to be something, to be something you offer me nothing.
Speaker 2:I like that.
Speaker 1:I offer him a lip pillow, which most people would say no, thanks bro, I'm good Said I was ridiculed, but that's okay because I hope it brought you entertainment, but the range, uh uh six targets, 10 shots, and so what I was saying was the first time we did it, we didn't even shoot any rounds at all and that was just to walk through it, and I think that, um, lots of guys out there wouldn't even think to do this. Um, I know some of our guys didn't think to do this. Lots of pros do think to do this, but it is to um, where we're talking about marksmanship or firearm drills versus movement drills. We're combining the two in this, where we are one, we are moving through um, through a process of different targets, and we're also trying to put our bullets in the right spot as we go, and so we're actually combining two parts of training together as one Um. So we're actually combining two parts of training together as one Um. And so we're actually combining two parts of training together as one Um. And so the first time we just walked it and, like goofballs, we pointed our guns at the target and we said bang, bang as we went. And we said bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and it's silly, and you feel kind of like a goofball doing it. Yup, I was buying with a laser gun and then went zap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, yep, make out a laser gun.
Speaker 1:He said zap, zap and here's the deal we collectively saved $100.
Speaker 2:More than that, for starters, some homies out there had, you know, expensive rounds that they were practicing with Exactly, you know so it's like uh, so you, in a matter of minutes, we save hundreds of dollars as well as we got better at what we were going to do the next time through Because we weren't.
Speaker 1:Uh, we got better and safer when we did it, and then the next time through it wasn't timed, and so we all kind of took our time through it. And then the third time through, we got better and safer when we did it, and then the next time through it wasn't timed, and so we all kind of took our time through it. And then the third time through, we were kind of pushing for time. And that's where I did see for myself between the first and second time through. The second time through I had less rounds on target. Um, I did move through it rather quickly, Um, and I was the it's. It's funny too and one sense between like trying to push your confidence of, not like just like, uh, for me there's something between point name, instinctual shooting as well, as you know, like really front sight focused, acquiring a target and shooting because I feel like sometimes, within certain ranges, I'm better at just a point and shoot and keep moving through, versus like taking time to acquire and in some ways that is more realistic to how you're going to go. But the other part of that argument is, um, if you train with good fundamentals, then those fundamentals are going to kick in when it's time to you know to to shoot and you will be doing point name shooting but your fundamentals, hopefully, will kind of kick in more as you go Right. So there's that importance to there and really our training. What we did technically, I would say, was only like what we should have done to start training Meaning.
Speaker 2:I think it is the. It is the start of training for a lot of the guys that are out there. Like for a lot of the guys that are out there. They're like, damn, this is, this is the sun peeking over the horizon, and there's way further. I can go and I've already seen myself bad today and improve to a point where I feel good about walking away.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And however I am also able to recognize this is this is just the start. You know, there's so much more that could be practiced and you know, and it was crazy because, like, for the whole hour and a half drive home, that's what me and the guy I was driving home with, where he was just asking questions and and we were just going over stuff, and the funny thing is he was one of the best shooters out there. He was the I would say one of the most improved. He's already got a lot of experience on rifles and shotguns Right. So I knew he. I knew he had the hand-eye coordination and speed I'm saying the use of a handgun and drawing and reloading and stuff but he's a sleeper.
Speaker 1:He told sleepers.
Speaker 2:He's also one of the most humble guys.
Speaker 1:Oh hey, how you doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Also, don't mess with this guy. Humble polite, we'll love you. Oh yeah, well, like, if you threw up on his like, you know, like fancy, like a polar bear rug, he'd be like oh man, let me help you you know, what? How about you get some water and I'll clean this up? And like he'd be bummed and he'd make a joke about it, but he would never like get in your face about it. He would never bust your ass he never threatened to hurt you, oh yeah. Whereas a lot of people like that's the first thing they go to, oh, yeah, and that's why I love him.
Speaker 1:Oh, he was awesome, that's why I love him to death. Oh, it was so good, so awesome, and the I will say this with our guys I was impressed by. I didn't see, I saw one safety violation all day and that was done by myself because I was filming and I stepped in front of somebody. Oh, did you?
Speaker 2:Are you talking about when that one dude turned around and you were in the line of the muzzle?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:I feel like that was an acceptable one, because you're filming on the camera Right and you're 180. And so here's it.
Speaker 1:But here's it. So I will say that was, but that I mean, that was, I mean I, I, I legitimately got flagged. Well, yeah, I'm pretty sure I got fully flagged. Luckily he was empty and doing a mag change and I stepped out of the way, so I did.
Speaker 2:I'll say this. I feel like I told you this. I did stop, before any rounds were fired, one guy from blowing off his ass, cheek at at the range. Yeah, his shirt. His shirt was untucked. He had a holster in his belt. At about four o'clock I saw his shirt go into the holster. He had just loaded a mag, put it in, racked around and started to holster. So when he started putting it, when he pushes the gun into the holster it could do it, or if you pull your shirt, it could, yeah, and so I saw him go and I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, man, your shirt is in your holster. Okay, he's like, oh, really, and like it was kind of like I didn't know if he could picked up what I was saying. I was like if your shirt catches on that trigger, your gun's going to go bang. Your gun doesn't have a safety.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And he was carrying you know P365, and he was like, oh, wow. And like, at the same time I was talking to another guy about you know the the. I was like hey man, how about you just boy scout today, tuck your shirt in. You're going to walk around all day with a tucked in shirt, but you get to experience what like carrying appendix is with an undershirt, right, so you're. So the gun at an appendix position isn't irritating your belly all day. And then you can, you'll, you'll have a more positive experience, you know it'll be easier to draw. And he like both of those at the same time. The other guy was like, hmm, I could see like the wheels spinning. And he's like maybe I'll try carrying an appendix and I'll tuck my shirt in. But I was like it gave me almost like knee jerk PTSD. You know, because I have seen I'm sure a lot of people listen to, have seen too the picture going online of the guy who was carrying a leather holster at four o'clock, tucked his handgun in it. The leather was sweaty, his shirt was in the holster, it folded in. When he tucked his gun went bang, blew off, like I mean I blew off but blew a hole through his ass, yeah, and like he went to the hospital.
Speaker 1:It was all just meat and fat, it's the best spot to get shot. You still don't want to get shot.
Speaker 2:But blew all through his ass, dude, like a clean hole, oh my God. And he was like. And he, the dude, had the humility to like. Post it on Reddit and he was like. So I put a 38 through my asshole today and like. Here's what it looks like it, like I'm never Gary, I'm never carrying leather and I'm never wearing an untucked undershirt again. And I was like, hey man, I'm gonna learn from you. And I stopped carrying leather that day. Dude, I used to have a leather holster that was like all like oven and vacuum sealed and stiff, but it had gotten soft over the years from sweat and heat, yep. And I remember I was like, well, I'm just not carrying leather anymore. And I got, I tossed it out and I got a new holster right then. Yeah, because the I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm always leery to train drawing weapons Because we're going back to the beginning of a conversation. There's a reason why ranges don't let you train drawing your gun.
Speaker 2:It's because a lot of people have shot their right nut off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or they're right for moral. Like you know, it's like the which is another thing.
Speaker 2:If you're carrying properly and you get the things that make carrying more pleasurable, the gun won't be pointed. You'll just put a hole through your pants. You know the gun won't be pointed at your thigh, but anyways, no for sure.
Speaker 1:And and like all these things come with experience, experimental, and like all these things come with experience. And so I think it's good for, like the guy you said, who you said hey, tuck your shirt and just roll with it sticking out today because you're not ready for this, and that's okay, because really it sounds silly, and don't let your wife catch you. But you need to stand in front of a mirror and draw that thing out of your pants about a thousand times. I let my wife watch me do it bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm, I'll go into her bath, do it.
Speaker 1:Has my job.
Speaker 2:looking today yeah, exactly, sometimes I get like dirty with myself, bro, like I'll draw like gonna be like, well, I'll do anything. Like please just have mercy. Like what are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm picturing you butt naked with your cowboy hat. Oh, you're picturing me but I'm picturing you. Yeah, yeah, I'm picturing you butt naked, with a cowboy hat and and a cowboy six gun holster tied on your leg.
Speaker 2:Just just practicing, just like threatening myself practice practicing fan firing, just fending your gun. You look like you're shooting at someone with a gun when you look in the mirror.
Speaker 1:But for real. You got to like, yeah, it feels silly when someone walks in on the or you or whatever, but like just stand in the mirror, pull it in and out of your pants a thousand times without a bullet in there, Because this is not, this isn't a game, we're not playing around. You know like it's? It's literally could end your life faster than anything else in this whole planet can, besides sub headed down to the Titanic.
Speaker 2:Oh damn, that was fast, fast, real fast. I've never seen a gun turn someone into toothpaste. Yes, reduce them. That said, yeah, I mean, and you know. Here's the thing. I don't claim it to be an excerpt by any means, but I know I've spent a good amount of time on it and I know I've seen a lot of people do dumb shit. I know I've even been able I've been given the rare opportunity to see people I look up to mess up and do dumb shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I feel like I've learned a lot. I still have plenty. I can practice and grow and I still go back to the fundamentals. Man, I mean, even on Saturday I caught myself thinking, hey, my finger came off the trigger on that follow-up shot. I did not feel the trigger reset. I need to be more conscious of trigger reset. But all that said, the idea at my core when it comes to carrying a firearm for self-protection is any firearm at all, any firearm at all you should have 80 hours on that platform in practice before you start carrying it. And when I say platform, I mean 80 hours on a semi-automatic no safety. You know the safety is like a Glock. You know it's the trigger safety.
Speaker 1:Strike a fire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's you know, strike a fire or whatever. But you should have 80 hours on that platform and I'm totally fine If 10 hours of that is actual bang time. Right, if the other 70 hours are you laying in bed and you're drawing from the position you carry aiming up at you know a weird dot on your ceiling focusing on trigger decompression click, there is enough. No waiver in your front sights, you have no twitch, you rack with the trigger, you rack, reholster and if you do that for 70 hours, you are going to be way more proficient than 99.9% of people who carry their gun. I have straight up told guys when I like they come to me. It was a weird thing, man. I was like the first dude to be able to like old enough to carry in my friend group in college and I had a lot of guys come up to me afterwards and tell me when they got their license and that they are carrying. And they would pull their shirt up and I would see a sticky holster with a Glock 21 or 19 or 43 or like some super tiny single stack and I'd be like your holster one. Your holster I get it's a sticky holster probably feels pretty firm. I doubt it will be that firm and your panic and your draw is not perfectly perpendicular to the ground. You know your draw is kind of like flinging out this way or you're struggling with it or whatever. So when your whole start, I don't think it's reliable to come off for you to have access to that trigger. It will probably come out with your gun when you draw. Two, I don't think you know how to draw the gun without having your shirt catch on a part of it. And three, I don't have enough confidence in you to be able to pull the trigger in a pressure situation and not have your finger slapping it and the gun deviating a centimeter in either direction.
Speaker 1:You know, across the vertices, which, with the pistol, by the time it gets where it's going, is if you pull it, if you slap the trigger?
Speaker 2:I did the math once. So if you slap the trigger and your gun deviates to the right one centimeter at seven yards, 21 feet, the average, whatever right, your round is going to be about six feet to the right of the person. Yeah, Six feet to the right of the person, Bro. That's other people. That is other people right. That's other, that's that's a lot of other people in a lot of situations.
Speaker 1:And if there's even no people, you're dead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, still right. Yeah, you're putting rounds all around them, you're outlining the guys. So the perps know, so that way when the cops arrive and they chalk your body on the ground. They know he was kind of over there, yeah, but like as a warning shot yeah but anyways. So I'm very flexible with the practice but my firm is my firm rules, like 80 hours minimum and like my rule for like when I started like practicing like drills with having an AR in the car or shotgun in the car or shotgun from defense, I probably spent by the time I got to that point where I was like maybe it's worth practicing having an AR shotgun available in the vehicle or as a first go to a during home defense, I had probably reached about close to 40 hours shoot time with those Not anything really fancy. I got real fancy with the 40 hours of dry fire, right, and I did a lot of repetition and like now I feel I don't feel like I'm better with shotgun and rifle than I am with pistol, but I definitely feel confident in my ability to like manipulate, manipulate those, those instruments for you know, using in response to an emergency. And I would argue that the confidence from those 40 hours dry fire 40, 60 hours dry fire the confidence from that is probably three times as more enabling and reinforcing than the 20 to 40 hours on the range that I've had shooting those guns. We're shooting those platforms, because I'll say this I don't think you need to spend 80 hours with each handgun you buy. Each rifle you buy. If you're a gun guy like me, you've already sold your first AR. You built your second one, you built your third one and you gave it to your mom as a Christmas gift and you're on your third shotgun. So like that's why I say platform practice.
Speaker 1:Right, right, I agree, and like I think I'd say that's the same. If you're also pistol wise, if you're switching to something, that's way different. If you're going, you know, strike a fire to 1911. Yeah, if you're going to 1911, where it's got a thumb safety, safety yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's got, it's not double action.
Speaker 1:It's got a lot of conquer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it's like. It's like you need to spend, especially with that gun. That is a fine motor skills firearm.
Speaker 1:And what you should do. Go back to the striker fire situation. Shut up, dude Shut your mouth?
Speaker 2:No, you're. I carry a double action, fat boy, and you hate, you envy me, for you wish, you wish you could carry that hunk of brick upon your appendix. But your appendix is weak and it cries out, begging for you to relieve it of the pressure. Yeah, yeah, I'm such a, don't get me wrong, guys, it's totally a practical what I carry in the winter. Well, it's impractical. I get for like the sake of like, there's better options If the Cubans come you're set, bro, Bro, fucking anything comes 15 rounds of 45 out of a five inch barrel. Eat lead bitch Like feel pretty confident about any situation.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, it's so funny. And so from I think that the if you're moving from one of those things to the other, like for me, I might move to a pistol with a safety right now, because so you'd consider like something that's got like a, you have it cocked round in the chamber, hammer back the lever up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, safety on. Yeah, dude, welcome to the world of the FNX 45.
Speaker 1:Let me take you on this adventure, baby, because I like. I like guns with hammers and also but here's what I really like is I like guns. When my three year old runs up to me and grabs my pants, there is like no chance that thing's going to do, to do anything, yeah, so that's totally like you know, like I can see how that would change the philosophy Right. So, like my philosophy, here's my philosophy used to be either one this is where you get crucified for on the forum, so I don't care here at one Nothing in the chamber with a striker, fire, pistol no safety. Your safety is the fact that there's nothing in there. Yeah Now, yeah, I get an unloaded gun. Here's a dead man's gun. I understand all that, but a big part of my philosophy on that would be also like that it cannot go off, and the chances of it going off are like a chance of my shirt getting caught in the holster. The chances of whatever something they have my buddy coming up and sack, tapping me, you know whatever are way higher with something in the chamber. So that's one philosophy, as well as the fact that, like, if you train with a gun with no safety, you just know that, like, when you pull it out, you start pulling the trigger. That's when it's going to be going off and there's nothing else you have to do for it. You don't have to train anything else. Now, if your life's more complicated, with tiny human beings around you having a, having a safety and a grip safety or a hammer or all three these things that you can de-cock and all this stuff, they, they take those chances of that thing going off in your pants and really drastically change it. And so you just have to, you just have to retrain up to use it. And so that's where I've thought about using something with a safety, just because I don't want to have that risk, because the to be real thing would be there's a way more likely chance of my of of of AD Ng than needing it ready to go Like that's, just like the way that AD Ng actively discharging yeah. Accidental discharge. Oh, I usually say ND, negligent, negligent, yeah, so AD accidental discharge, indeed negligent discharge, we higher chance of that happening than actually needing it in a real life situation, when you have a lot of things going on in life but you want to be strapped.
Speaker 2:So look, man, I'll never scrape someone. Here's the biggest thing, right? If here's my approach to this kind of shit, if I really think my method is the best, the least effective way of convincing you my method is the best is by insulting you for yours, right? The most effective way of convincing you that my method is better is spending time in rehearsal and you making a pros and cons choice over. Okay, I see the value in this and I see the value in what I do. Which one do I think is more valuable, right? Which is like, again, something I think we saw on the range on Saturday. We saw, I would say, half the guys don't carry with the round in the chamber.
Speaker 1:Right. And I would say at this point, they probably shouldn't do the lack of training Exactly.
Speaker 2:But I will say for sure Some people say you shouldn't if you haven't trained up to there. Yeah, I mean, it's all about you know different philosophies. Again, yeah, I've never told anyone you need to carry with around in the chamber. I've always told people I carry with around in the chamber, but I also I the day I got my concealed carry license, I watched a video on like how the fuck does this thing work, right, you know. And I watched that video and I was like I feel very confident it can't go bang unless I fuck up, right, you know? like the gun itself isn't going to have a malfunction in. Like you know, the pressure of gravity break a. That's just not how they operate. That's not how the the, the design of the firearm is. It's not under tension.
Speaker 1:And then, after that, you went and spent hours and hours and hours and hours and hours with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'll tell you what my guns never had a bullet come out of it without someone pulling a trigger Right. That said, I do think Saturday we saw a very clear difference. I can think of one specific situation where a guy pulled his gun to racket. You know we were running a couple of drills and don't worry, ken, if you're still listening, I'm going to give you all the kind of drills and recommendations for products out of the Saturday that I saw, beneficial to the shooters and such. But we were running a drill, a response drill. The drill that required a step to step process to be hopefully realistic and the idea was you are aware that there is a shooter, a threat that requires you, know you, to engage with lethal force, but your priority is not first to engage the shooter, it is first to address individuals who need help, such as children, moving those individuals to a safe place and then moving to a position where you can engage the shooter. And it's great because it challenges priority thinking. I saw people a couple of times, even subconsciously I think, go start going for their gun. At the same time they were reaching for the surrogate child, the backpack. It was interesting because I could see the hand that was going for the gun like glitch. It was like once it got a hold of the backpack it committed. But in like the half second between making contact with the backpack and picking it up like a kid, and it was like back and forth in rubber banding between reaching for the gun under you know wherever they were carrying and picking up the kid. And it was cool because that's exactly what's going on right in your brain is prioritization and switching between priorities and, you know, assigning value to operations. But one very specific situation guy move the backpack, move the kid behind cover, turned to engage and identify the threat. We had different colored targets out there which was called out at the beginning of the scenario. So you know his back was to it. He would have to pick up the backpack, run, put it in a safe spot, turn, identify the proper color and draw and engage. And when he drew he went to rack it jammed, dropped the gun, picked the gun up. I didn't see that. Oh yeah, drop the gun on the ground, picked it up, did it, he did it. He didn't fumble, juggle it, which is good. You should never try to juggle the gun. Let the gun drop on the ground once it's like there, pick it up. Juggling a gun is how you do accidentally get an D.
Speaker 1:On your face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or someone else's or you know whatever, but anyways juggled it, picked it up in the in the. What I think happened is he didn't have a firm grip on the hand on the like actual pistol grip, stripped it out of his own hand. Yeah, and when he went to racket, strip the gun out of his hand and the like feeling of the gun going out of his dominant hand made him panic. The once it's out of his dominant hand the whole lower frame goes back into battery with the receiver and that feeling is going to again pull it out of your racking hand, goes onto the ground, picks it up. It's half-racked, jammed. So he had to rack the round out, tap it and like, rack another round and then put two rounds on target and that took four seconds and it was right. After he announced himself like right, he started drawing and to rack, saying drop the gun. And I'm telling you, like bro, like it's only a quarter of a second for someone who already has the gun out to turn in and gauge you.
Speaker 1:You know what. The only move is at that point. What the mill Gibson Dive roll, hit the dirt roll roll, tap it, rack and fire.
Speaker 2:But like, I saw that several times where, like, back to back, we would see guys go out with a round in the chamber and we would see a guy after them go out and have to rack it and like, yes, I understand the logic behind it. At the same time, it loses a lot of time. At the same time, if you put me or, you know, some of our other boys out there with rounds in the chamber already, if you put us on one side, you put the other guys on the other side and we were looking at each other and it was, hey, first person to draw and bang the other one wins. I guarantee you the philosophy of everyone with that around in the chamber would change because they'd be very aware that they're dead. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, and so, like that's why, like I feel like I saw a lot of guys philosophy change on the range that day. You know, like I feel like I saw them like and again, I never wanted to tell anyone. You can't do that. That's the wrong way to do it, because it is a very subjective about like what your situation is, and I respect a parent's choice to be like hey, this feels like the safest thing for my kid, even if it means I get shot Right Because I get it.
Speaker 1:Because that's where the philosophy break down. There goes where I've said this for a long time, which is I don't carry for self-defense. You know, I typically carry in places where I'm going to be protecting other people. So you know, it's like that's and, and so if I get shot, I get shot, yeah. And now the other argument would be okay, that's a great, you sound very, you know, valiant, you know right, but if you get shot dead, can you save anybody? You know? So there's. So that argument obviously comes back on itself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's, it is. It gets down almost to philosophy, right For sure, but like that's also why I just have never, like I've never felt the need to argue it, but I've had good buddies of mine tell me like, yep, I have my gun and I have my ammo in different rooms in my house and then some days I carry that gun and I get up, I grab the gun and then I walk to the other room, grab the ammo and my plan is to do that and keep them separate and my child never observing me do either of those things for as long as I live. And you know I got my whole opinion but like I've never told that guy. Like, man, you should teach your kid or you should, you should think about teaching them so that way if they ever catch you, it's not a curiosity thing, it's a respect thing. Dude, that doesn't matter, not my kid, not my house, not my gun. One of my best friends, all always respect them. If they ever asked, like what would you do? You know I'll maybe like have a philosophy on that, but like, when it comes to the Second Amendment and the way you conduct yourself in that in your home and your family, like, as long as you're not being negligent and I'm not going to say anything for sure, and it's funny because that even our conversation is just around the philosophy of actually guys who carry guns or have guns versus like.
Speaker 1:The spectrum is even so much wider. If there's people you could like, there's guys who are like I sleep with a loaded gun under my pillow. You know like. There is that, you know Like, and it is that there's zero like safety measure, precaution measure like this is how I will protect myself over to like people that are other guys who are like I don't own a gun.
Speaker 2:Like I will let them.
Speaker 1:I will let like I am pacifist, like a true pacifist, to them. Like it's funny how that, like the whole thing, like point being it's. I do think it's funny how how many perspectives there are and even in what lots of people would think, lots of people would lump all of us, like all the guys we've just been talking about, into like the same perspective. Actually, there's a broad perspective, yeah, and then it just goes. It's a, but even within these different tiny microcultures, there's actually like 40 hour conversations to be had around all of it. And I think, ultimately, what it breaks down to is what we started off talking about at the beginning, which is training with your stuff so that you feel comfortable with it, cause I've been around guys, I've got guys in my family, guys in my life who and friends who just are very uncomfortable around firearms and one. Some of that comes from like a very healthy respect of being like. I mean, personally, I've never seen somebody shot. I have guys in my family who are like do I have a video for you? Just get in Right, but like, but like. Okay, I've seen, I've seen plenty of those videos, but it's not. It's never been like. You know, I was standing there and the aftermath of this situation. That was absolutely wretched. And there's guys in my life who were like guess what, son? You know, like you know, I'm not gonna like I've been there you know, and like. I've seen what these do, I've seen how this plays out, I've seen what this actually is, you know, like that sort of thing and like so, meaning I have room to grow in my own like maturity around these things as well. As so I'm giving credit to that. I'm also saying I've seen people who are just like so fearful around firearms that it actually makes them, makes the firearm more dangerous, makes the firearm way more dangerous than it ever should be, because it's if you know how to use it, you know how to respect it and you know how to keep it safe. It can be used well and it can be kept away from being a tool of harm to innocent people.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna say this. I know this is gonna sound radical to a lot of people, but I have never met someone who has spent time like getting comfortable around a firearm learning how to use it, the basic practices of learning it and then growing in skill. I've never met a person who walked away more afraid. That's true, and that is why I'm a personal believer in everyone should have a gun, because and I'm even a believer like everyone should have a gun, even like felons, even criminals, and hear me out the reason I think they should have a gun is because if everyone has a gun, it is gonna reduce the likelihood that they are going to like if everyone has a gun and not just like everyone has one and it's like I don't know how to use it but it's in the cupboard over there. If everyone has a gun and everyone is trained with it and everyone's like damn, this thing is fast and scary. And also I can see myself getting better with it and I understand how it is so fast that if the other guy or gal is more experienced and trained than you are with it, you're already dead.
Speaker 1:And I think it can bring value to human life as well. I think it brings an insane amount of value.
Speaker 2:Like I've never, I've, never. I can't think of a time in my life where I've been more aware about the value of other people's lives around me than when I have a loaded gun. For sure. You know, like, think about when you're at the range and someone's being an idiot. Think about how much you realize that person's life matters. Oh yeah, and at every like the other 30 years you've known that individual or whatever and you have not been around them when they had a gun. All of a sudden, you see them looking down the barrel of a gun, wondering if it's loaded, and you're like, holy shit, your life has importance. I'm afraid that you could kill yourself right now negligently, and I'm going to try to stop that. And like I can't think of another thing that makes you more rapidly realize like, oh, this person's important, this person is a life. They have value. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Your last statement, though, makes you sound like syndrome from the Incredibles.
Speaker 2:Syndrome, like everyone should have a gun. Yeah, everyone should be a super. Because if everybody's super nobody is, that's honestly like that's, honestly, I think, the best way to deal with it. If everybody has a gun, no one's afraid of people with guns. Right, you know. Have you ever met someone who's afraid of people with cars? No, you're right. Have you ever met someone who's like? That person has a car.
Speaker 1:That person could kill like 80 people in a parade right now.
Speaker 2:That person could literally no matter what building I go into, they could use that to bring that building down. That's true.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:But we don't really think of them. We think of guns as differently than that, and I just think like if everyone has a gun and everyone learns and trains and practices on them and accepts that they're never going away you know, it's Pandora's box then it becomes way less of a big deal and it becomes way more of a yeah. So this is what you do and this is how you stay on top of it. Also, this is going to be something that, at some point in your life, teaches you every individual human life as a as a value to it. Right, that said, to our kin out there, I want to follow up on this. The two drills, primarily that I wanted to go over when we were doing our church security team training is the Wilson Combat Church Security Drill. It is with Ken Hackathorn and it is the episode nine of the master class.
Speaker 1:If you just go on to YouTube and search church security drill, this first video, that comes up, and to properly run this drill you have to wear a blazer, like you're at church.
Speaker 2:I wasn't wearing a blazer, but I was wearing my cowboy hat.
Speaker 1:I know that video though. It's like look for the guy in a blazer on a gun range. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And with the mustache that goes to his ears, looking like you know the Colonel out there about to sell me some chicken, but at one point in this video.
Speaker 1:I think maybe I've, maybe I've mythologized this video at this point.
Speaker 2:But I watched it like 10 times I think, do they slow mo it ever?
Speaker 1:I don't know, man, I feel like at one point he slow mo spins and his blazer like Batman's cape, and he draws. Now, bro, that's just the effect man.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing. I think Ken's a badass. I don't think he, I don't think he ever drives like make anything flashy, no, but like you just see, like his other drills that he does, he's just like a dude who seems like a very strong utilitarian to me. Mm, hmm, like I can't ever imagine him doing a drill that doesn't have like a very strong utilitarian purpose. But anyways, it's a great drill. It starts off with you seated down in a chair. So get a camping chair, get something that is, you know, similar to the way you sit in church in a pew or in the lobby or whatever, with your back to the target.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:So and the reason this is important, because you're like wait, wait a second, if my back's to the target, if I draw, does that mean I'm drawing on all the people behind the target and therefore in front of me? No, you dingus, you don't draw on all the innocents in church or in a movie theater or wherever you're at. Mm. Hmm, you turn to identify a threat and then you draw and engage. Or if you know, you know you're moving towards a threat to engage them, then you draw in a position of concealment or whatever, but you don't draw and flag the 90 innocent people in front of you and the in the pews at church, right, and so that's kind of the idea of starting with your back to the target. So he starts with his back to the target and when the timer goes off he steps up, turns around, identifies target, draws and engages, which is pretty great. I added a spin to it to combine this other drill. This is the top five warm up pistol drills with Navy Seal door from tactical hive. Tactical hive, I think, is great channel. I think they have a lot of great drills and a lot of great honest feedback over specific firearm setups and things like that I'm not a big fan of the name. I think everything is becoming tactical and they're just running out of names and so they're making you know they're just throwing anything on that they can't do it. But I do enjoy tactical hive and a lot of the kind of stuff, so I have a lot of content. They provide top five warm up pistol drills with door. Essentially is very simple drills of drawing on a target, firing rounds, practicing magazine, you know, ejection and reloads and then practicing a transition. Now here's the thing he practices a transition in these drills from an AR platform to a pistol platform. In our church security none of us carry around ARs or anything Other than like pistols. Most strap church in America. Yeah, no kidding. So I wanted to incorporate that though a transitionary drill. And so that's when we did the kid transitionary drill of like, you know, picking up a child from like the child area, moving them into cover, setting them down into cover or prac, or simulating a handoff to someone else who can get the child further away from the source of harm, and then transitioning to your pistol, drawing it and engaging the threat. And I have to say this I was blown away how everyone performed with those two drills. I think we only had one dude Absolutely plaster the pastor when the range safety officer yelled out blue shot green he shot green and killed the pastor and it was funny because he's definitely one of the most skilled people at the range that day, one of the most practice, and if anyone was to make that mistake it was great that was him because he had the humility and the confidence in himself to not let it beat him up. But I thought I was pretty sick to see that, like you know, everyone performed pretty well, even like our very novice guys, our guys who in the beginning of the day didn't even know what a trigger reset was, and by the end of the day, both rounds in that transitionary drill, having to actively practice prioritization and then moving into a transitional space identifying a target amongst different ones. All that said, I think that was like really sweet to see how guys handled that and used it and moved into it and it was all within a good time. Like no one was like spending 30 seconds, I think, on like stand up from chair, pick up thing, walk over here, set it down, draw, drop the weapon, bang, bang. You know it was. I mean as long as the technique said that was probably the longest it took people to move and do it, and so I just I thought it was pretty cool. Gave me a lot of like confidence in like the future of the team and stuff and where people can go.
Speaker 1:I agree, I was. I was impressed with the firearms handling and safety of everybody. You know, it was like they're the proficient in that people are going to be safe. And then marksmanship was, you know, at the moment can improve, can improve, but good enough in a pinch, you know, like, like there was no, there's no.
Speaker 2:Those guys. That was like you're going to shoot me in the back of the head if we're going.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, it was like you know, sure, pelvic girdle is a good good way to stop them from moving. Like it was still like yeah, you're not, you know you're going to shoot their eye out, but like hey, it's on target, you know, and here's the deal. It's a volunteer team you know of it's not, we're not painting these guys.
Speaker 2:And they understand, everyone understands, if they shoot someone in this volunteer service, it's CYA. Like, yeah, like the church isn't paying their legal fees. You know, they understand that. Like, yeah, like I'm doing this as a volunteer to like, put myself at risk.
Speaker 1:For sure. And so, yeah, I think that I was. I was impressed with where we were at. We didn't feel like we have to, you know, tell anybody they got to got to leave the team, not even leave the team.
Speaker 2:But not like I don't think I'd ever tell us Like hey, man, you got to put it. Oh, some more practice in here before you start carrying that church.
Speaker 1:It's like you give them the wooden gun, like from the other guys, like all right, you're on probation, you're carrying the wooden gun for now. What a shame, but so give them the wooden gun yeah, take it home and clean it. Yeah, get linseed oil three times a day.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:You've read my mind I was just saying linseed oil and so I thought that it was a good down the range and for me, I think that listen, guys out there who want to shoot, find a way to be able to shoot in a private range type situation. You're actually going to get better training. It's more comfortable, it's more fun, it's more dynamic.
Speaker 2:If you're in the inner city too, though there usually is an opportunity at those inner city ranges to sign up for some kind of course Right, get in courses and get in those things too, because that's expensive Right.
Speaker 1:It is expensive. But here's the deal. It's like 10 guys and the whole range is shut down, just for you. You know, that's the thing. Yeah, you get to do some cool cowboy shit on those, on those train days and, depending on you know, there's bad instructors out there, I'm sure, but also, for the most part, like there's guys out there who know what they're doing and then you're going to learn something.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I got a shout out to mastermind tactics. Mastermind tactics makes a product that is. That was definitely, in my eyes, the all star of the range day, really.
Speaker 1:The nutsack pillow. Oh dude, the nutsack pillow. That thing is wild.
Speaker 2:People wanted it, people envied it. I let a couple guys try it on and they're like, damn, this feels way better, mm, hmm. So mastermind tactics makes what's known as the appendix carry pillow. They have a three pack of it and then, if you don't want to, if you're not entirely bought on it you know the idea of like, attaching this, you know extra two inch girth, what?
Speaker 1:is it?
Speaker 2:What does it do? It's a two piece system where you put this industrial duty sticky sticky on one side, soft fabric velcro on the other side String. For your nutsack.
Speaker 1:It's there forever.
Speaker 2:No, you put it, you put that on your actual holster and it's got to be a rigid body holster. I don't think it really works on weather, you know, because it's pliable. And then you attach a pillow that has a velcro side to it To this. It's like a little beanbag and it's at a sloped angle and what it does is it? It pushes the grip of your handgun tighter against your waist but pushes out the barrel away from your body and it also just keeps, like the corners of your holster from rubbing that inner thigh or, you know, when you sit down it keeps it from pinching, and I think it's. You know, it makes it easy to. I'll be honest, it makes it easy to conceal carry a full size 45. Like it makes it comfortable. I don't always conceal carry, that you know, but like, when I do, I make sure to have that extra thick pillow on it, and so I want to shout them. And if you're not bought on it, if you're like whoa, it's 65 bucks for the three pack of the pillows. They have the foam pack, which are just foam wedges, not the pillows, and the foam wedges are the same thickness as the pillows and they're they wear down a lot easier because they're not like sewn by gosh. I don't even know what the fabric is, but they're good to try out and they're only like 17 bucks.
Speaker 1:And so I really recommend different sizes. Is that why? Or is it like if you?
Speaker 2:pack of pillows are different sizes, so like you can get it fit the right way you want, especially to like, if you're concealed carrying a like a really big like holster, then like you're going to use the king size pillow, yeah, and like going on it with a buddy and then, yeah, figure out what's best for you.
Speaker 1:30 bucks, there you go.
Speaker 2:So I just want to shut them out for sure, just, and they're not sponsoring this or anything like that. It's just like it's improved my quality of life carrying and I think it, you know, definitely helps with concealment. Some guys think like I can't carry because my I can't care appendix, because the grip sticks out like a sore thumb underneath my shirt. I look like I have an insulin pack on the front side of me. This really helps in like pushing the angle back and concealing that grip.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think if it here's the thing too, about a carrying If you decide to conceal carry, do what it takes to make it comfortable for you to do it, because you need to commit to it all the way. If you're going to, you know, if you're going to carry, carry and so for another couple of bucks, makes it more comfortable and makes it hide better. So what's the? You know what's the loss.
Speaker 2:Exactly, but with that I kind of think that's a good you know, full dedicated episode to range time practicing good things. We learned things to continue to practice, gave some videos out there for you guys all reference and learn from and carry into your own life. And yeah, I think I think this is a good conclusion here, keeping it focused on this topic. What about you, Pat?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I think that I had a good time out there. I learned a lot about what I need to learn more on, and I think everybody should put more time, put more energy into training. If and it's kind of a beating a dead horse If you listen to any of this type of stuff, everybody's always you know you, you know you don't rise to the occasion, you fall to your training, right and so. But it is true, and it's also fun. Good rec time, good time with other dudes makes you more confident, so why not do it?
Speaker 2:Exactly. All right, Ken, appreciate you listening in. You can check us out on everything. Stay tuned for as things develop, Website is getting closer to being completed and we'll have schedules up there. We'll have a place where you can submit even voicemails and fan emails and all that so we can read that stuff online when we're recording. But yeah, stay tuned for all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Until next time, until next time Nice. Oh man, still hot, it's still hot, it's less hot and still hot.