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Step right in, as we take you on a journey through the complex dynamics of growing up in a blended family. We reflect on our experiences as siblings and how these relationships have influenced our interactions with the outside world. From analyzing the shift from nuclear families to communities, we explore the challenges and lessons learned in maintaining these relationships.
Imagine serving selflessly, with no expectations of recognition. We examine how this concept of service has impacted our identities. We delve deep into the motivations and the art of sacrifice. Our discussion takes a thought-provoking turn as we explore both religious and secular contexts of sacrifice and service, and how the lack of role models fosters an identity crisis.
Finally, we reflect on contemporary societal issues. From the Kavanaugh case, false allegations, to the influence of Scientology and the challenges of celibacy, we cover it all. We also discuss the traditional expectations of marriage and its potential consequences. This episode promises to stir your thoughts and provoke introspection. So, why wait? Grab a cup of coffee and join us on this captivating journey through the lens of our collective experience.
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So, yes, I'm a siblings step, siblings I've had mm-hmm. And I've had Growing up. Jay Was my older Brother by a lot. I think. I was like, I think, when I was born he was already like 16.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So, like early childhood memories of Living in Michigan after I was born, I remember him Just kind of always being there living in the basement. Graduating high school, went to his graduation graduation party and I've always Viewed him kind of as family. But that's because I was freaking born and he's like part of the earliest memories of my life, right. Mm-hmm and After that there was quite a few years where I was just an only kid with my mom, mm-hmm, cuz he you know Jay got married to move down Mm-hmm and and that was in a half to college and that was it does.
Speaker 2:no, he's a step-step step yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then my mom and that partner split and then that her next partner had three kids, and One was older, also a J big douche canoe, and he was. He was. He spent a lot of time with his dad, I think, because he wasn't always around. He was like he would come by on weekends and stuff. He lived at the house for a little while. But then there was T and V and they were T was a little bit older than me, step-sister V was younger than me. Step-brother and I got along alright with them. Definitely was like just like Kind of dealing with having to share, like I didn't want to ever share anything, you know. I was like fine, I like whatever you know, and it was definitely cool to like have a little step-brother. That was already pretty well broken in, like his older brother. His older brother, like I said, was like probably 16 or 18 when I was like Eight or nine because so he was already a little brother. He didn't become a little, he was already used to being the youngest, littlest brother, mm-hmm and his older brother like they grew up and they lived in the ghetto like bad area East Denver, and so by the time he started living with us in like South Denver, he was like already like pretty rough, used to like roughhousing and like could definitely take like a you know Jackie Chan karate chop off the sofa pretty easy twist of fate. Yeah, I mean, like I was pretty surprised. Sometimes, like you know, there was some moments where, like he would go for like the sumo slam on me. I've roll a lot of away and he'd land on that, like you know, quarter inch carpet over concrete in the basement.
Speaker 2:No, he just he just lay there. I was like he's dead.
Speaker 1:But he just get up and like kind of struck it off laughing. I was like you know, it was kind of it was fun, like, but most of the time it was just like I don't. I'm used to being an only time. I don't want to share. These are my toys, you have your toys, let's not mix them up here. Bud, yeah, but then after that split it was a few more years and then my mom's next partner had a Boy younger than me, another Jay mm-hmm and then a girl Call her L, and she was just a little bit older than me, but we were like the same grade. Hmm and her and I got along pretty well. But when we argued we really argued Mm-hmm, just because of like same age and she was like this was like middle school, so she was becoming a teenage girl and I was becoming a teenage dude and like at first we got along because we were, you know, when you're an elementary school or sixth grade, mm-hmm, boys and girls are pretty much like they can do the same things and like Play the same games on the playground right and like they, they're kind of entertained by the same things. And then you get to like Seventh grade, eighth grade, and then girls only want to watch MTV, they're starting to get into makeup and like they're starting to think everything about boys are gross and nasty and dudes are like Girls are starting to be pretty. But it's really frustrating and annoying when they're really frustrating and annoying. Mm-hmm and it's one of those things where it was just kind of like no one told me I had to deal with a teenage girl when I was born right, yeah, it was an only child. I don't feel really obligated to deal with you. So like, as we got older I definitely, like, we definitely had a way more Falling out in. But the younger brother, stepbrother, j3 cubed he Him and I just never really got along super well. He was definitely a lot more Like, sensitive in, in regards to like he couldn't deal with rough housing, he Didn't handle Conflict very well. He'd be, he get pretty frustrated and just like scream, grunt, hmm, kind of like autistic screeching, you know that meme, mm-hmm, yeah, and like he, and then he just goes sit in his room and pow, or he'd go try to tattle Taylor, so like, and we got along sometimes with. A lot of the times it was just like I Don't know I Could tell he never wanted to, he never. He was never really Having fun in the house and he just wanted to go be as dads because his dad's had no rule, right, mm-hmm, and it was very much like dad's house, no rules. Here I have to do homework and chores and all this stuff and it sucks and and I Was just kind of Over it so eventually. But nowadays L and I get along really well. You know I still invited her to my wedding and stuff. Mm-hmm. She moved in with us when I was in high school for a little while. She had like a rough patch where she kind of Needed a little bit of stability and like a little bit of a push to focus in school and get back on top of it, and my mom has always seen her as a daughter. Mm-hmm was like you can definitely live with us, we have an extra room.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Just know I'm not gonna accept you.
Speaker 2:You can't ditch class like you're gonna have to go right and you're gonna have to work a job. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And so Because of that she's always kind of remained in our lives and still visits my mom in Michigan and stuff. And then J cubed mm-hmm grew up and realized Maybe my dad's not that cool, hmm, maybe I needed a little bit of discipline and maybe I maybe I needed that structure when I was a younger kid and I know he struggled a little bit but he did. He's done really well for himself. He's married now has first kid, hmm, and he still sends my mom Happy Mother's Day stuff. And Texan invited her to the baby shower and wanted her there to To be present for, like, his kid being born and stuff and his wedding, which is really cool. Him and I aren't that tight like he was. I didn't invite him to my wedding, I wasn't at his it wasn't like a. It's not a sore spot. You know I mean, it was just like dude.
Speaker 2:I don't you're on the next circle. Like we stopped at, like we, we we invited circles one, two and three, your circle for dude, last time I saw you was my birthday in 2008.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, bet a long time and All I said, though I'm really proud of him because he's done really good for himself and like didn't go to college, just got essentially into the trade of being a mechanic, and he's really done a good job sustaining him and his family and his little one and their mom, j Cube Dennell. Their mom passed away when they were in high school. Oh really and they and then like in that I think they realized like my mom had been a good parent to them, not necessarily a mom or dad, but just like a good parent, mm-hmm and like cared about them. And I think they realized she really, really cared about them, like because a lot of people like Truth is is like when your mom dies, you realize like not a lot of people care about you, like you realize 90% of all the love and care you got was from your mom, right, and so like it's a really sad thing, but I think they realized they're like, oh damn, like this woman still cares about us and More than anyone else does right now.
Speaker 2:Really, you know what I?
Speaker 1:mean. And so they really, I think, appreciate my mom for being very like Still being it, like pushing them, expecting the best out of them, but also like being very motherly towards them as well, of like Whatever you need food roof over your head, if you need me to drive you to work, whatever, we'll get it done. So you know, and I, like I said like Ellen, I got tight over that Mm-hmm, jmi never really got tight again, but you know, it wasn't like either of us really seeking it out or either of us were really Not seeking it out. It was just kind of like a man we, but by now we're just way in different spheres and into different things and like let's not try to make something that isn't there. I would still definitely like, I'd still be like Get dinner with them. You know, like there's no, there's no bad blood or anything. It's just like a. It's kind of like when you realize you were friends with someone in middle school and then you're like man, we got nothing in common and I don't want to make something, just so we can sit down and be kind of quiet with nothing to talk about, right, yeah, so well, I said those are the step siblings. Six yeah, I think that's the number Was accounting. Were you J, j squared?
Speaker 2:J squared T T V V L JQ J cubed now six, yeah, the six step siblings, the. I have two sisters and I've a two brother-in-law two brother-in-laws now and I've got two sons. That's funny. My, my son tonight was having a little bit of a rough time. Just it's funny. He's three, so he's his emotions just ping-pong, because today is talk like a pirate day. Love that and so we had a pirate themed dinner. We looked for when X marks the spot with the treasure and and then we, we did all these pirate things and he Was so excited about that and he had all these. I think he had it was almost when you were a kid. Did you ever get worked up over your birthdays? Like little kid, like? like as in worked up, like over excited, like disappointed both, like the expectation of the day is so big, and Then you're like it's not meeting my expectations. Now I'm disappointed, dude. I'll be honest. My mom crushed birthdays, crushed birthdays. My mom was the most like. No holds barred, let them fight birthday like you know, I think I told you about this right, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:There's that one girl who just came over and she I had a big crush on her. Mm-hmm and then all my homies showed up for my birthday Mm-hmm. We all just wrestled until, like we were taking our shirts off and just jumping off the couch on each other and she just had to sit there and get a watch, yeah a deal, I Was never disappointed by my birthday's there's a couple times where I was bummed because I had this idea on my birthday, what it? or like the Friday we were celebrating it, me and all my friends would walk to the school. Mm-hmm, we would just play on the playground with no rules. Mm-hmm and just do whatever the hell we want on the playground, about no rules for hours. And that never happened because my birthday's in February. Yes, it's just. This is like last thing we want to want, want to do is walk to the school on Friday in the cold and it's also dark at like four. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's a doubt, there was that thing. But, um, I definitely got like Over stoked for sure about my birthday. Like, yeah, over stoked stress. I always was stressed that no one was gonna show up. Oh, yeah, but my mom just knew she made it happen how to like let boys have fun, mm-hmm. And so every year everyone showed up. Every year Everyone was like, bro, yeah, birthday, it's not even about dude, it's just about like having a freaking blast. Yeah, and it was. I always had good time. My friends always brought good gifts. You know it was always good stuff, but it was. It was one of those things like you never Want to go to your friend's house, whereas birthdays like Super over orchestrated Mm-hmm, and his mom is gonna be basically telling you like where you have to stand for which picture, and always like what you have To do and what's next and like, yeah, we all sing like German birthday songs. Like no one wants that, yeah, I mean. But if it's like oh, all I have to do is that go with my mom to buy a gift, mm-hmm. And then we could play like with pool noodles, as lightsabers and super soakers in the backyard. Yeah, okay, tight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, whatever, it's a good time, yeah, for sure. But so on this talk like a pirate day, he'd worked himself up so excited about it, I think throughout the day, and then but it didn't quit, it wasn't his birthday. It wasn't his birthday, no, we just. I think he just was having. He was having birthday. Like emotions as a three-year-old. It was like he was dressed like a pirate. We were playing pirate priority games. I apologize, I thought this was a birthday.
Speaker 1:No, we're going on a real tangent here.
Speaker 2:No, this was just. This was just another day in my house. I showed up. I had no idea. I showed up and Put a pirate hat on, and that's that's how the day went for. But so then, anyways, he was having this, he big emotions swinging from one side to the other, and he was having a hard time. And then he gets in the we're taking giving the boys a bath, and we were, um, the little one, he was pushing my older son, like just my little ones, a baby, and pushing my older one, and my older one just felt like he was being mean, and so he just starts crying and he's losing it in the bathtub, and I mean truly just he does this thing right now, where he has, he gets truly distraught and like it's not a temper tantrum, it's like because this is his whole world, he is honestly having a complete breakdown going on. And so he's screaming, crying in the bathroom I don't want a brother anymore, I don't want a brother anymore and screaming it over and over again. And he meant it. I was like, oh my goodness. And so, and it made, I had a weird reaction as a dad. I like, I was like I haven't even processed this yet, cause it just happened like two hours ago. But I was like God, that is sad. And I kind of like, all of a sudden I had this weird image of like adults, like adult siblings, and one of them screaming like I don't want a brother anymore, and I was like I don't want this to be like the future for him. And so then I like I like kind of somewhat aggressively removed him from the bathtub and took him to his room and he was just just going off and I I raised my voice at him. I didn't yell or scream at him, but I raised my voice cause he would not listen. I raised my voice to him and he stopped and he looked at me and we calmed down and started talking and we talked through about it and then he got himself under control and asked him what was going on. He said yeah, he was, he was just, he was being so mean to me. I said well, he's a baby and he doesn't know, and he's like, and he just stops, he goes. And he said he, he stops, and he says I know, and he says he's, he's a good brother, like you know, and just like, got right back on track. But it was. It was funny watching and not funny it was. I had this weird all of a sudden I'd played everything forward so far. I was like, oh my gosh, I I want to cultivate like a really good relationship in like these siblings and I hope he always wants to have a brother and I know that they'll have a special relationship. But sibling dynamic is interesting and I think that, yeah, I think you probably have a somewhat unique perspective on it, from kind of having some people go in and out of your life not by choice early on and then others have a choice, but it comes usually later on in life go to college, get married, get a job, move away or whatever. And the it can. It can break down over time, but the I think that it's good to have siblings, it's good to be socialized. We learn so much from our brothers and our sisters, whether they're blood, half or step or whatever. We learn how to interact with others, we get to have relationships and I think it's a pretty key part to our early development for sure, having having those, those around.
Speaker 1:And I feel like this is a biased question, right, because I don't actually have blood siblings and you do, and you've only ever known really like what it's like to have to share mom and dad's attention with them. I have only really ever known what it's kind of like to share mom's attention with people who aren't really her kids yeah, like her kids. And so, like my perspective is like I don't think you need siblings, right, but I do think you need to be pushed to essentially survive and foster deep friendships, like lifelong kindergarten through high school, whatever friendships, right. And like learn how relationships grow and break and change over time, how people grow and change over time. And like I think there's a lot of resource, resource sharing and attention sharing in schools, right, cause teacher has to give all these different kids attention. But I think, like I think I think having siblings is good. I think having siblings has its pros and cons, just as like not having siblings does. But I wouldn't say I think that like they're needed. I would say like it's more important. Actually, I think it's like I think and I think I've seen this in sometimes sibling relationships when they've come to a more public setting I think it's far more important actually to have to deal with like public fringe, like making friends in public and in a public setting with public pressures and societal pressures. I think that's more important than learning a sibling dynamic, because I've seen people come in. That sibling dynamic has cued a lot of red flags of like man she seems to be obsessed about her brother. Or man he is really like he thinks all women are bad because he despises his sister you know what I mean and like stuff like that. And so like I think the sheltered bubble of too tight of a family dynamic or too like too much of a forced interaction, like this is your group, you were not. No, you can't have friends come over. No, you can't go, stay at your friend's house, you have to share everything with your sister. Your sister has to share everything with you, right? All that XYZ, I think, can create a lot of negative of a negative environment and negative dispositions that then, when exposed to society, society is like you're broken dude, like that's nasty, that's creepy, that's just outright wrong and like. I've seen that not more often, right, but I've seen that enough that I'm like man. It looks like it could go either way and I don't think siblings are always, always. I don't think they're needed to be a healthy, functioning member of society, but I definitely think they can be good they can be bad. Yeah, what do you I mean? Come on, you can't tell me you never met anyone in college where you're like okay, so you literally let your sister decide how you view all women, Right.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. No, yeah, I think that any extreme isn't good in that sense, like there's a scene in a is it friends or I think it's friends. We're like. There's like a brother and sister who, like, live together and they always think it's kind of weird and they think they like they might be incest. Well, like they didn't know they were brother and sister, they thought they were dating, but they're just brother and sister. It's like they're too close, you know and like. And it's weird Because one of the things you were describing was like a hard core, like home school family, where it's like there's no outside influence, there's no outside like a dynamic or whatever to the home school might be socialized or whatever you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't even know if it has to be a home school, like it could just be like just that weird social internal pressure, yeah, and like I like I think I've told the story here, but I had that Hispanic friend- and it was always a miracle if he could come to birthday parties or hang out somewhere, because his mom was so strict and like would never let, hardly ever let anyone go over to his house to hang out. Hardly let him to go hang out.
Speaker 2:So we only knew him, as you know, school kid you know, yeah, yeah, I think that, like the nuclear family, I think is key to all societies functioning well. But I think that Two and a half kids, two parents, if you really like, yeah, if you like, just yeah. Basically to simplify it, yeah, it's like you know, two parents, 2.5 kids, dog, all right, that's like the nuclear family. But to describe more the nuclear family being, you know, a mother, father figure with children who are being raised with their values and the values that are of the society, which is weird now, because we're so fragmented, maybe in that we're like, if you- Some families' values might be bad, right, right, you and I probably disagree with people out there and the values they're instilling on their kids thinking, oh yeah, we're instilling morally upright values. Exactly for sure. And so, if you like rewound in time, you know to be like all right, we're taking this, it's the year 700. And this is a Nordic family in a village of 500 people, right like where you have. Their societal and cultural norms, from the family all the way up to their leaders, are pretty much similar. They're a little bit differing here and there, but for the most part it's like same, they're the same, you know right. And I think that the sorry my mind is going a million places right now with a couple of things, but I think that one, I think the nuclear family is paramount to a healthy society if that family is, does have good morals and is an upstanding individual. But I think that, even if not maybe going back to like our fatherhood series a little bit too like fractured families almost always have. Or I'd say what we found talking to people and then also looking at like some of the stats and stuff, is that fractured, broken homes do make kids more likely to go off the path.
Speaker 1:Right, right right.
Speaker 2:And so then, like that is one thing about the parent dynamic and then going down into like the family dynamic. I think having like a strong family dynamic is important. It's not the only way, or 100% necessary, to become like a quote unquote good human being, but I think that, and I think that we do. Now we've turned everything over to our local governments to kind of facilitate that for us. So, yeah, you don't need to have a family because we have one schools and we have rec, sports and we have all these, and we have a big brother, big sister club, we have all these different institutions that do help you become a socialized individual. And so now it's kind of the point where we've made it, where we don't necessarily have to have it. But I think that traditionally the root of that came from families, where you had especially families that had 12, 13 kids out on a farm, right or whatever, and they went to school for like two months out of the year, and so it was key and paramount to that process and maybe it's not as much anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know a lot of the necessity of family, like the necessity to have multiple kids was to survive and some are gonna die.
Speaker 2:It was like some gotta work on the farm.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was always about free labor for the most of human history it was the idea of like. I have free labor and I have people who look a lot like me and who will die for me against the other people. You know what I mean. And through all of society, that's what it was. And then it's you know, Hatfields and McCoys, bro. It's all Hatfields and McCoys until very recently, where society became easy enough to sustain all of us to a level where you don't need to have children to sustain your farm.
Speaker 2:In some cases, some people's perspective might say that children or spouses actually degrade your ability to Dude, children are now optional, Doc.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know we've gotten into it, but, like, abortion is now far more advertised than ever before and, like dude, it wasn't too long ago when it was like, why would I get rid of this baby? Getting rid of it might kill me. Also, I'm losing on the opportunity to have something to like help me and the rest of these kids survive, or help me and my husband survive. You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean You're provided in our old age.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like. It was seen as like this is still necessary, like we need this to have a better odds. And now it's turned to like I don't need a kid. In fact, maybe to have a kid worsens my odds, because if I don't have a kid, I get to keep more of my money, don't have to spend as much on feeding it, my rent doesn't get more expensive if I like don't have a kid. You know what I mean. All this stuff like Like social life zero impact Right. Exactly Right. So all I said I get what you're saying. I definitely think society as of today is far less reliant on the nuclear family to sustain itself. I think the nuclear family is a good thing when it is in a society that shares the same values and like the nuclear family is one of those things. That's like it works both in America and Soviet Russia. Just as much as there is nuclear families here, there are nuclear families in Soviet Russia, little bit different, little bit of a more negative view on the value of female children at the time. But the nuclear family existed in multiple nations where all the nations were united with a common ideology and to all those nations it was a value. I think one of the best examples is where I was like you could watch Chernobyl whole movies in English with British accents, whole TV series. I should say right and like everything is accurate to a T of what it was like living in Ukraine, technically Western Soviet Union, at the time when Chernobyl was happening. Right and like you're watching, you're like this is just a bunch of American nuclear families living in underneath communism and for the most part seems the same as America. Only thing is kind of weird is like looks maybe a little bit more poor but like for the most part still nuclear family. You know, it's like one of those weird things that, like that style, provides value to any society that's kind of in that stage and our society today I don't the postmodern society doesn't seem to have as much value. But that's not to say it's not a good thing and in fact not that we shouldn't go back to it.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, like what is actually? Yeah, cause we're talking in terms of at the moment, of current world view and benefits there versus like. We're not talking about how actually like should it be? You know, like the like and maybe like should it be back all the way to where, like the goal is to have like 120 sons while you're in like and build a tribe? Maybe, I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Probably not. I think that's pretty desperate. Pretty old times Struggle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, for sure, that is the struggle, you know. Keep up with that much relations Dude Solomon had how many wives? He had like 100 plus wives and 800 plus concubines. He was a thousand.
Speaker 1:That's too many opinions to deal with. Sounds like he had a lot of problems, a lot of problems More than 99.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, dude. So the I think that there is. There has been a shift from tribalism to individualism on the pendulum, but I think we're hitting far too far over on the individualism side. You know for sure, I agree.
Speaker 1:Where that hits, and so the most important thing to me right now is tribe. I constantly think about tribe, I mean that's the whole essence of like this podcast is to develop a bigger tribe Right Like that's the I mean, that's the big idea behind this is a network of people who view each other more as just not acquaintances, but like belonging identity, and not that people would identify as the mick and pat fans, but more like that. Through this podcast people would get connected, people would hear things that push them to create connections, whether or not they're other listeners, and then that like would spur them on to foster that kind of tribal community.
Speaker 2:Right and with the whole intention of kin Right, Without pushing the pendulum all the way over to where it's like, we will kill you with our sharpened plowshares because you know, whatever dispute or we want your corn, you know not have field, McCoy yeah. Not full, not full blown on the tribalism, but you know, it's like the pendulum's got to be pulled back a little bit and without being swung all the way over. And yeah, I think that we're in an interesting place for the word community. So funny to me because now community, when people use it in conversation, has nothing to do with location. It used to be like pretty much purely location. My discord server, yeah, yeah, and like back in the day it was like these 100 and like 50 acres I'm talking a long time ago like that our little village lives in. That is my community.
Speaker 1:That's not long ago. That's the majority of the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That is primarily. Most of the people in the world still view it that way.
Speaker 2:Right For sure. And now we're like, oh, I just don't feel like I have community. It's like, well, you don't, you live in a hyper individualistic society and yeah, your CrossFit, your CrossFit gym is your community, that is your community.
Speaker 1:You do not need any of them to survive Right, Like if that CrossFit gym disappeared. I'm going to be even more controversial.
Speaker 2:You might be better off. You'd have an extra 140 bucks a month and you can go freaking squat on a box in your garage.
Speaker 1:It would be more controversial. Make a call out here, bro. You might disagree with that.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:That's all right, pat, you don't use your church. You'd be fine. Your life really wouldn't change that much if your church disappeared. Whatever you want to call your church, I know a lot of people who the CrossFit gym is their church. If you want to say your universalism, accepting of all and everything, I don't even think they're called churches. I think they're universalist temples.
Speaker 2:We have one near here. Unitarian church is also one of them.
Speaker 1:Whatever you want to insert there. Your church can be your bar, but whatever you frequent very frequently and continue to get your little bit of human interaction out of it.
Speaker 2:Your fellowship and moral understanding.
Speaker 1:There's a majority of people I would say would be fine if that disappeared. They have everything that they need still in regards to food, water, shelter. It means to get all three. It's not that we don't need those things. It's not that we don't need those communities. This is that I don't think people really in the last 20 years have had to serve in order to survive. The truth is, communities used to have to serve to survive. The expectation was there were people who were going to die if they didn't get to the next place that had a church with an open door policy. That church would let them come in and eat and rest. Then those people were expected to serve for a little bit labor, a little bit help with farmer Joe down the street in his crops, help clean the local gas station, whatever it was as they passed through. They were still expected to serve and help with their part. The rest of the community was also expected to serve and help with their part. It wasn't uncommon to see Pastor Fred and Farmer Joe and the cobbler Steve and your constable Jeff. It wasn't uncommon to see them all in the summer Sure, building the new church, because the whole community used it, but also all those same guys pulling up the frame to a dozen different houses.
Speaker 2:They're building the new dam. It's going to provide hydro electricity to the further place.
Speaker 1:It's what they all did together so that way they could all feed and survive. You just don't need to do that anymore. A lot of people think like I need my communities? No, you don't, because you haven't served your community, you haven't sacrificed for your community. You might have put in a few volunteer hours at your own availability, but you haven't had to choose to really give up something to put in the work. So there's bread on the table for other people In return. They recognize that you've sacrificed and they put bread on your table. You know what I mean. Because we don't have that society. I don't think we have a very service-oriented society and therefore we don't have a very deep communal society. This was something I was pressuring. I help out with a youth group. I was really trying to press upon the high schoolers to think about the last time they did an act of service that was inconvenient and they received no recognition. One of the most common expressions I've ever heard that I love that I think is really the heart of service and humility is it is very easy to be a servant until you're treated like one. We speak about Jesus and trying to follow Jesus' footsteps. If you see Jesus' life, often he was treated like a servant and he almost was always serving someone. Very rarely did he probably get the celebrity recognitions that we see, as highlighted in the Gospels. Ultimately, he died not a prisoner's death, but it wasn't the crucifixion specifically for not a rebel, but what's the word for someone who treason? I think it was the death in the Roman Empire that was most often used for treason and sedition against the Roman government. He died that death so literally someone else wouldn't. They substituted him in and let an actual criminal treason rebel leader off. It's one of those things where, if that's the example, when's the last time you did it? I don't even ask non-Christians of this. I have no expectation that non-Christians would sacrifice time out of their day to serve someone at their own inconvenience. Most of the time when I ask that, think of it. Last time you served someone and you didn't get recognition. Last time it felt almost not bad, but you're like huh, no one said thank you, no one padded me on the back.
Speaker 2:No one's going to know about that the word sacrifice has gotten devalued. You know, like, like, yeah, like, let's go back to I don't know Peru circa, when they were sacrifice in their children, right, yeah, like, like, sacrifice was a, was a, was a high cost, up to you know. Or, in Bible time, sacrifice of of your livestock or of your harvest of your harvest or your tithe more traditionally, you know, in recent American years your tithe. But it's still like now. It's like I didn't get to have my Jamba juice today or what I don't know. Like it, just it feels like you know, I mean we do wait.
Speaker 1:that way we're like for one cup of coffee. How often is that used? Oh yeah, for one cup of coffee you can feed this starving child in China.
Speaker 2:We even maybe have used it on this podcast today. Probably I wouldn't be surprised. In our new in our ad read that's what it says yeah for for your in our ad. Read it says for your, for your latte addiction, you could afford this. True, we used it ourselves.
Speaker 1:And the context of that is you are going to sacrifice in quotes for those who you know can't, can't see this $5 pleasure to put $5 on something else that will hopefully bring you an equitable amount of pleasure. Now, that's not a sacrifice, that's a transaction, that's just a reallocation of funds. Sacrifice is inconvenience. It's giving something up in the hope of something not necessarily better coming back to you, even just in the hope of something better coming out of it. Right, you know what I mean and you're right, I don't think we see that anymore and I'll be honest, I don't know any kids really. I know maybe a handful and by that I mean like a four, maybe five who can say like they've actually they can think of a time where they serve someone or something and didn't get recognition for it. And I know that they're being honest, because those four have said to me didn't feel good, it sucked and it was hard, and it's not like on a church mission trip, which, don't get me wrong, church mission ships are great. I'm not here to dunk on church mission trips, not here to judge your vacation. But the thing is is like on a church mission trip you're going to get recognition, like where you are, recognizes you're here from wherever and that you're sacrificing time to be there and help out in whatever way.
Speaker 2:Hopefully you're not, you know more in the way than not, because what did become your profile picture after that trip Immediately?
Speaker 1:We all know, dude me hugging a Mexican, exactly, and I say that because I did go to Mexico for six spring breaks and I'm very, I was very close with my homie, david, but I'm not going to say like I look back on, like me as a high school, middle school kid and like my knowledge of craftsmanship, but I'm sure I am absolutely positive, david's dad did it better. Yeah, javier, yeah, I'm sure Javier did it better. And but what I'm sure is, like the contractors that would come down with us to help organize us and tell us what to work on, I'm sure they got 10 times as much work done as any of us and they would have gone 10 times as much more done if we hadn't. Yeah, but we did dig a lot of holes and we did hold up a lot of lumber, a lot of framing, so they could put the nails in and, like you know, do it right and you did learn something and do something important. I learned a lot and like I know we made it. We made a cafeteria for like orphans in the community that have like bunks on the top level for different mission trips to stay like different mission teams to stay at Right it was. It was cool, I get like we did. It took a long ass, took six years, but we were able to do it and all that said. It is not that you can't do something good on mission trip, but you're always going to be recognized for it most of the time Right, unless you're out there on your on your own doing mission like a mission on your own and you're just wandering around earth trying to serve people and then sometimes they might recognize you and what you're doing out of the kindness of your heart and be thankful, feed you, let you stay somewhere for free. Most of the time they're going to think you're weird, you're bum, you're almost vagrant, wandering around looking for odd ends to feed yourself and then while you're doing that you ramble and preach you know, like that's the majority and it does suck most of the time, like I don't know. Can you think of the time last time like you did something and weren't getting paid? No one recognized you for it, and it was an inconvenience to yourself, and it was definitely like you gave something up and did not receive something in return, and was that an enjoyable experience?
Speaker 2:And did you not come away from it? Bitter or not come away from it, you know, you know, and so it's a weird hard balance because you're right, like in some ways, I can't think about the last time, in some ways, of when was this thing I did, and because I feel, in some ways, I have become more selfish over the years, slash reprioritized over the years to certain things, meaning when you are in college, your parents are helping you out and you don't have responsibilities. You know, you're like, yeah, I bought that guy some like Chick-fil-A and dropped it off to him or whatever. Like you know, like that's easier versus when you're like what was the actual value in that? Versus being like I'm a dad. We're trying to like move things forward. You know I have responsibilities. I have these things that have actually have a job, I have all these things going on, and so the but with the sacrifice piece, the being recognized for it isn't even necessarily wrong. It's not wrong, right, it's not wrong being recognized, but it doesn't feel like a servant. But then, but the but, the um. Here's the funny thing, though. Here's, here's a, here's a flip side of the pendulum is like you do get recognized, like in a church. Sometimes you do get recognized for being a servant, sometimes all the time, sometimes maybe too much Like sometimes it's like sometimes, it's expected that you continue to serve unendingly Exactly. Like this, where it's like like Christ yeah exactly when it's like oh, he's got a servant's heart. You just, you just got a servant's heart. Thanks, bobby Joe. You know, I know you closed 10 mil last last deal last month.
Speaker 1:You know I get what you're saying. You know where it's like. You know you serve in turn. You mind doing my bathroom for free, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or even like you know, like classic, like the guy, like you know you can, you're just the guy changing the light bulbs or stacking the chairs or whatever, and it's like wow, this sounds real personal so. So, anyway those two examples.
Speaker 1:Those two examples, like felt real, pointed it's so Up.
Speaker 2:There's the guide. Stall the Trim around.
Speaker 1:Try to figure out his windows, supposed to be measuring three times Because yeah, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:Some people will give Overly. They will overly recognize the servant hearted guy out of their own guilt of not being a servant. I get what you're saying, but I think that, yeah, the art of sacrifice has been lost. Even like to take religious context out of it. Public service, you know we don't have a lot of options for it.
Speaker 1:And if you find the police.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you know, and so I didn't say that.
Speaker 1:I didn't mean that as like a statement.
Speaker 2:I meant like that as an example, I know, just like, just like in the background and everyone's, while you're just talking to defend the police.
Speaker 1:Defend the police If firefighters Piss on paramedics. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:If those guys Just kidding.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, if the guys who make the rules, I get what?
Speaker 1:you're saying, and I think religion is just easy because religion is the most common place. We see someone, maybe not even at an inconvenience, but someone giving of time.
Speaker 2:That we do something and that we historically see like big acts of sacrifice and service. You know, you got them. One of the pinnacle examples Mother Teresa, right that's, you know, just sitting with people who are sick and dying, giving her time to them. And did she die rich and famous? Not really.
Speaker 1:She afterwards yeah.
Speaker 2:She got some, she had some fame, had some recognition.
Speaker 1:I don't think she got famous alive, but I don't think all of her fame came after death.
Speaker 2:And I think she was known at the time as well, but like Catholic Right, but it's not like the you know. Yeah, she could be, you know a household name. Now you might say her name and everybody knows what that is. But, yeah, what are we going back to community with that? I think that's what that's ending up doing is breeding a lot of identity crisis. Oh for sure.
Speaker 1:That's, that's the whole core issue of, I think, america today is no one's got an identity, no one's got anyone they look up to, and all of the heroes are bad, you know. I would just read an article. Apparently, russell Russell brand that comedian, not that he was ever a hero of mine, but um, is he getting? I've seen a couple things pop up. Is he getting?
Speaker 2:tanked right now. He's, he's, I guess.
Speaker 1:I don't know if there's prior allegations and now there's just enough of them. It got, you know, raised in media escalation, but essentially it seems like there's been like four claims of him raping women on movie sets or being sexually aggressive. I don't, I can't. I can't keep track of the differentiating between the terminal energy now, because I've always understood sexual assault is rape, but now there's sexual aggression that's not rape, Right. And then there's sexual, not assault but sexual harassment. Frustration, harassment, Sorry.
Speaker 2:Cause it is hard now because I feel like they're using the same words to define someone being like hey dude, you're going to be a sexual assault, and someone being like hey Janet, you look good today and also being like sexual harassment Right, right, but like you know, like hey, janet, you look good today and also being like I, I completely violated physically this individual and violently abused him. Like the, the, the lineators or definers, kind of like the the word racist is a lot of ways. You know being like. You know this guy like, said something where he just said like I don't know he, he just used a word kind of incorrectly in a moment, not a hateful word incorrectly in the moment, versus also someone who's like burned down somebody's house. You know both of them Like. I feel like the, the, there's becoming less delineation between these things and whatever and I'm not going to defend Russell Brink, cause I don't know what's going on, pat, they're both the same sin and God. Yeah, oh my.
Speaker 1:God Right. Have you ever heard of the penny analogy? Um no, but I, and like I know, I know what you're saying. You're not defending Russell Brink, I'm not defending them either, but I'm also going to point the finger at just Hollywood in general. I'm going to be like Hollywood you suck, you suck balls. Um, because Hollywood. I saw, I think I mean I don't even remember which article wrote this but they said this is the product of paying this guy a million dollars a movie to act like himself. You enabled him to behave this way and it's like. It's like, if the allegations are true, yeah, like who? If I'm getting paid a million bucks to be a shovingistic pig who can like have sex with anyone he wants in a movie you ever seen for getting Sarah Marshall, yeah, yeah, that's, that was Russell Brandon, real life for a long time and high the whole time. Yeah, I get like. A lot of people are like well, that's different, that was comedy and it's like. It is comedy, right, and it was also comedy not too long ago to like have funny cat calls in movies. It was also comedy not too long ago to have bad cat calls and then women put men in their place for having not creative cat calls or you know whatever. Right, it was all funny and fair and games. And now it's not funny and it's not fair and games. But guess what, just because he did those things doesn't mean you're also off the hook. Like he did those things, likely on sets where people knew about it, turned the other cheek because, well, I mean we're also asking him to be that person in a movie where we're glorifying him right.
Speaker 2:And we're and there are also allegations at this point, right and it's hard to. Yeah, I don't know of anything that's been like nothing's been determined.
Speaker 1:I think has like gone to court and settled Like it's. I think it's all like allegations, because my only.
Speaker 2:I haven't looked into this. I have no idea, but I will say this he's garnered a huge following over the last few years For being real political incorrect.
Speaker 1:Well, he's super politically incorrect.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you're aware. Yeah, but like, but, but like in a good way. I mean, do you want like I?
Speaker 1:certainly don't agree with him on everything, but I certainly, I certainly appreciate some of the things he's put a voice to. But at that same time I can also recognize I don't need to appreciate him for just saying the headline title of something I've already read elsewhere or already like agreed with Right.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's like. It's kind of like, just because we're all in the same room saying, yeah, we have questions about XYZ, doesn't mean that we're all good people.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? I think there could be there's definitely going to be bad eggs in any group. Right, he could have done all these things, but what I what's my, my paranoid brain is just ticking on a little bit would be he's been coming after big corporations, big people and big things for like the last three years.
Speaker 1:Shut this guy up, and so what is?
Speaker 2:yeah, what is the cancel his ass sort of thing, because he's been kind of like no holds barred on everybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I know he. And again, dude, this is such a sensitive thing because I don't want to. I never want to be the guy that hindsight 2020 defended Bill Cosby.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. And Russell Brand seems a lot like Bill Cosby when you look at like his track record.
Speaker 2:He could have done these things for sure.
Speaker 1:I'm just the conspiracy theory he has been part of me wonders if it's like one of the things where, like he got, he started pointing at Hollywood too much and too loud and Hollywood was like did you forget, right, if you forget, that we got people here who are going to make these claims?
Speaker 2:What did you forget?
Speaker 1:you did these things, or yeah, did you forget where you came from? Did you forget, like you're saying, we do this, but guess what, bro, like we were in the room when you did it and so it's one of those things where, like, I'm not sure if it's like a go down swinging or go down whatever, here's the bottom line, not for his sake, but I hope you didn't do that thing, especially for the sake of anyone who might be a victim, because if you didn't do it, you're not a victim, you're a liar.
Speaker 2:I don't feel bad for you.
Speaker 1:If you did do it, you're a victim. That's awful, you should be punished. But you know it's, it's. We've kind of seen this before. I'm going to just call it as it is, to like not saying this is the same situation. But we've seen this example many times. Kavanaugh bro, the Kavanaugh example. Somehow everyone forgot about it. No evidence ever came out in support of that woman's testimony that Kavanaugh witnessed her being sexually molested and like they can't even find evidence that she went to the same school. No one from their like geographical area knew her and they dog and pony show kangaroo court Kavanaugh for the longest time, trying to keep him from being appointed to Supreme Court.
Speaker 2:Do you remember any of this? You look at me like you're OK. Yeah, I mean with your questioning brows.
Speaker 1:No, I was like maybe, maybe Pat didn't read about this. It was also right at the spike of covid, like right at the beginning of covid.
Speaker 2:I was replaying all the hearing videos in my head that I've watched on it because it was like I mean, it's one of those things to. You're watching it as a consumer, as a person trying to decide what's going on. You're watching like these allegations come out that are horrific and you're like, yeah, lots of frat dudes at frat parties have, like you know, done something awful. Used the date rape drug, you know like. So this is totally viable. This could have happened. They've done these horrible things. You know also. And then also the other side of your brain is like where's the proof in this? You know, and then which side is pulling the wool over my eyes. I want to know the truth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and like I just remember that being one of the things like it seemed very not convenient. I guess it just like seemed very fortunate for the accuser, with and like the everyone who's like saying that we should just take her word for it Because Cavanaugh was a old white guy who's Republican and we shouldn't let him make decisions when it was essentially he was acquitted of no wrongdoing. She just like disappeared and there is no more coverage on it, because COVID was all the rage. And I'm not saying like anyone disappeared her, I'm just saying she didn't have to face any repercussions. Right there was no lawsuit filed against her for like liable or like defamation, and she was just able to like, essentially, be like oh, there's something more important now on the news, and I can get away without anyone trying to help me down and be like did George Sarge pay you a million dollars to say this about Cavanaugh? You know what I mean? It's just one of those things that, like I just remember it and I'm like it seems like everyone forgot about that. And I think we've seen it several times now of like these allegations and they end up like having no evidence and like beyond, and it's not like right, well, we can't verify anything you're saying. It's like no. There's people coming out and being like I never once met you, and these people you're claiming to know never went to our school, like Judy. Do you have a last name? We can give you a list of all the Judy's who went to our school and the like years you would have been there. You know, and it's just like all this stuff of like all right, like this is made up. This is a, this is a cash grab, like hoping to grab on the coattails and that's you know. The sad thing is is like that makes it harder for the true claims to get just this. you know right, like the true claims to come out and like, be like. Oh, there are politicians that have abused their power and sexually assaulted someone, or been in the room and not done anything when someone's getting sexually assaulted and they're on every side of the aisle. And your false allegation to hope to money grab or, you know, twist politics around someone being elected or nominated is going to devalue the real claims.
Speaker 2:You know so, so you have. It was Danny Mazersen these last few weeks. Yeah, dude.
Speaker 1:Finally I was. I had given up hope. I thought Scientology was always going to get him off. Yeah, dude, he got getting cremated.
Speaker 2:He should though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because Scientology like tried to silence and pay people to just shut up and just settle out of court and they always were wiping his ass for him and just getting them off scoffery, and he just kept on doing it because he felt like he could always get off and now it seems like it caught up to him in 30, 30 to life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good dude, let it be an example.
Speaker 1:man Life is a long time. Let it be an example. And he's because that's one of the where there is a shitload of evidence. There's a lot of evidence that he did the things people said and so I'll tell you this If you end up going to court and there's already court records in the past of you telling someone like how much money will take you to shut up Right, you look pretty bad, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. You know, if you're in the Scientology world you're. Whether you're a good or bad moral person, you're just in a bad ethical place. I'll say that just just to start. Like, whether you're good or bad morally, whatever that means ethically, you're just kind of in this.
Speaker 1:You're starting off in a weird world which, to be fair, everyone's going to know, point at us and be like, yeah, but aren't you Christians and part of that big old church that always is constantly covering up for pedophiles? And to that I'd say no, I'm part of a very small local church that is, you know, not a part of any bigger, or, at least as far as I were like, I don't think our church is a part of any big nationwide network.
Speaker 2:Our pastors have sex with their wives, and that's a lot different. I mean, that's just started.
Speaker 1:I was just like so caught off guard that you said that for some reason, I'm just like because I think that it's a.
Speaker 2:I think that I am not justifying any of abuse of children or anybody at all, but just like the, I think that it's a bad starting point to be like all right now for life celibate.
Speaker 1:You're like, oh, I see now the English. Yeah, that's what?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, yeah, and I'm not just finding this, I'm just saying like so the guy we built our whole identity around of how we're going to do the church.
Speaker 1:He was married and no one else is going to be allowed to do that. You know, what I mean. And for those who talked about Peter being married, I'm not saying Jesus married, jesus said Rock. I'm going to build my church off of to Peter. Peter was married. Peter was the first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're talking about the first Pope. And was that statement about Peter? Or was that about the statement that Peter made?
Speaker 1:That's for another time, who knows, who knows?
Speaker 2:Good point, I always forget that devil's advocate arguing on that one, because he was the state. Peter made a big, fat statement and then Jesus said upon this rock, and Peter means stone, and so it's a. There's lots of conversation.
Speaker 1:We had layers around there, but anyways, what I'm saying is, I agree with you. I think it is not a good idea to ask priests, or anyone essentially serving the church, to be celibate if they aren't feeling that God has called them to it. Right, because the only people who should be celibate are those who feel God has called them to it and that it's like people who find themselves unable to remain faithful and therefore believe that they'll never be able to have a healthy marriage, and they need that kind of level of accountability and discipline to remain single and honoring and treating others well. Or the people who I think I've never had a sexual attraction and they're just like well, I don't feel called to procreate, I don't feel I've never met another person that I'm sexually attracted to. So therefore, why not just do a whole life dedicated to ministry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, or legitimately like, called to a. If someone who's like convicted of this they're like I, like women, I would like to have sex with them also. I feel like the Lord's called me to a life of ministry and to serve him, but to not be married. You can serve the Lord and be married. It's possible 100% right, you know like and so if someone's like, listen like I'm not gonna like. If someone feels that level of calling to be like, you know I'm gonna serve, just serve the church and he's calling me to not have family these things whatever and anyways.
Speaker 1:I want to make a statement here and it is gonna be a pretty aggressive statement, all right, and I'm totally fine. I'm not saying this is the case all the time, but I'm gonna say this has been the case every time in my experience. Every time I've met a guy who says he's yeah, I am sexually attracted to, like I there are, I want to have sex. Right, I'm attracted to women and I think you know I have this desire to get married and have sex. But I feel like God's calling me to a bigger purpose those guys have always been with no, no, those guys have always been snakes in the grass. Those guys have always been guys who have never really. Actually, in my experience they've always been kind of wolves and sheep's clothing and all they really cared about was getting laid and having sex with some, like trying to get some church girl to sleep with them. And then they move on to the next you know, the next ministry they can have to and they're very, you know. There are always people who I've met that are like, yeah, I was a camp counselor at this last summer camp and I pretty much just live out of my car and I'm like I live in one town with a couple people who go to college that I met from camp before. I kind of eff up things there and I move on the next, and that's not how they phrase it. That's kind of you find out about it and discover it. It's like, oh, you're just a grifter using this holier calling spiel to get in some chicks pants and like. The best example I can think of it is in that movie, the devil all the time, hmm, and it's a. Do you know what I'm talking about? Mm-hmm. Oh, go ahead while I pull up the name.
Speaker 2:I just gonna say the same, bro who's like listen? The Lord said like to bring one shirt, and that's all I have.
Speaker 1:He have a washing machine the devil all the time 2020 drama thriller. Tom Holland's the star in it. Robert Pattinson plays Reverend Preston what was it? Reverend Preston something? But he plays the southern young Reverend who's all good about saying the right things mm-hmm to be the new pastor at a church and all he wants is to sleep with, you know, the prettiest girl in high school mm-hmm. As soon as he does that, gets her knocked up. He is pretty much trying to, like, convince her to get an abortion and get out of town and you realize he's probably done this in a lot of towns before he dressed to the next one and it's always the same thing where he just says all the right things people want to hear. They let their guards down and he get, you know, picks his plot, mm-hmm. And it's disgusting and I feel like that's always who those people are. When I met them who are like oh yeah, I have my struggle against the flesh, mm-hmm, some attracted. I want to get married, but I feel God's calling me to a higher purpose and I've never once met anyone who is called to celibacy mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:By God but also still has very active sexual attractions you know to want to be married right, because even like what Paul says he's like and I say it can't happen, right, but I see it can happen. And but I'm just saying I've never met them because Paul says he's like, he's like it's better to not be married. He starts off kind of like that you get more time to surf yeah he's like and play your PS5, but games with the boys more time duck hunting. But you know the other thing he's like it's better to not be married. But if you can't handle it, get married.
Speaker 1:Get married if you burn bro, if you burn with passion, get married it's better, he said it is better to burn with passion get married than to burn in hell and I'm just like I remember here that is a high school boy was like looks like I'm a lopin this weekend. I remember first I read that I totally, like, as a high school boy, misunderstood what I say. I remember just thinking like so that's really scary. I guess I got to get married right now yeah someone like 16. I was like I remember like Google, like can I get married at 16 in Colorado? And I remember immediately by like now my youth pass over one of the youth leaders volunteer. He's already, you know, married man with several kids. He's like that is not what that's. Do not go home telling your grandparents or mom that we're telling you to get married at 15. Alright, we'll have, we'll have trial protection services of the SWAT agents down here real fast, like we're not a cult it. I was like okay, and like then they explained it. They're like you know, it's just like. If you find yourself not able to control these urges and constantly slipping up and constantly having premarital sex, the odds are you're gonna end up messing up and getting a girl pregnant out of wedlock without real safety and commitment. And it's just honestly better if you can't control that, if you can't be disciplined. Get married, yeah, don't go to college, work a hard job, learn from your mistakes and raise that baby, treat that woman well and eventually you'll find yourself entrepreneurial, independent employer. Have four employees underneath you, your wife runs the office and your kid is doing just fine and everything worked out. But guess what? Like most, most men can control themselves. A lot of them just choose not to, because they'd rather not deal it, because it's a hard thing, right? Mm-hmm? And I feel like that, versus really directed at them. It's not as like, if you can't do it, get married. It's more of like do you find yourself just choosing not to do it? Mm-hmm, then just get married, right? Quit flip-flopping, yeah, quit living on the fence yep, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Back to the nuclear family, back to the new family dog, full circle. Potential intent of the creator have a wife and some kids yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. I think that is the real intent, right? Um, I'm curious, though, because I made that definitive statement did you ever meet anyone that you can recall that you like man? I think this dude is legit, like called us celibacy, and his thorn in this side is his daily struggle with the desire to get married and have sex and have kids. I haven't, but I will say I have met priests who I think are dope oh yeah, I've definitely met some Catholic priests that I thought like damn, they're not all bad, this guy's pretty sick and they would probably be like.
Speaker 2:No, bro, I do get erections like I'd have to use that right like I should be like.
Speaker 1:No, bro, I see baddie. I see baddie and I recognize that he's like.
Speaker 2:He's like, you know, like the I haven't just met a bunch of like you know watered down. Do you just like no I'm, that's not interesting.
Speaker 1:I'll say I'll say to that credit to you. I've definitely met priests that gave me like peto vibes. Hmm, majority of priests I've met have not given me peto vibes right, you know the majority of the priests I met are just like yeah dog, so like it's free housing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, job is pretty cushy, just sit and talk and help people all day work through their problems and they've got like intense biblical insight, yeah, dope tradition, yeah, solid identity in themselves, and so no, yeah that I think that it's worth saying that part and I don't know. You know, I'm glad you said that, because that is very valid because there's a I'm kind of a closet Catholic in some ways of that dude there's like I think it's, I like, I like the practice, I like discipline, I like the tradition, I like there's a lot of things I like about it and I think that a lot of things about Catholicism are something that a lot of people, specifically believers, need to adopt, to like you have routine, have commitment, have a place of service, sacrifice and, yes, it's a huge inch institution where there are, with any institution that's run by man, things get, it's gonna fall short again whether it's, you know, an institution of five people at a company or you know where five hundred thousand in it in a religious belief. You know there's gonna be, yeah, pitfalls, short falls and so, but I think that there's like you can. I think some of the cool value about is that you can the tradition and some of the things in it they've been doing for a long time and so you know if you're a non-denom, you know person, person who's like person who's like no, I'm not religious, I just follow Jesus, right, like whatever, like you know yeah but you know, like, whatever it is and I feel like I'm one of those people too there it's like cool, cool, so like, how long is, like, your thing been around? You're like, oh, you know, we started like back in 2020. You know it's like okay, dope, like maybe let's engage with some things that have been going on since, like, you know, 300 AD, you know, or, and, and some of the, some of the stuff there. The stories, the history, the story that you're claiming to be a part of, didn't stop when Christ died or when Christ rose to heaven. Like the story didn't stop. The Gospels stopped after. After that, I'd say after Revelation, the Bible stopped being written, but the story of Christ and his story didn't stop being written, and there's plenty of real good things out there. Between that, when John wrote that last bit in Revelation and now, when we're standing now, there's plenty of stories you should know. There's plenty of truths that you can understand deeper and plenty of practices that are healthy, you know, mm-hmm. And so that's why, yeah, a little bit, I agree with the closeted Catholic there. I will say I agree, but they still don't.
Speaker 1:Let me take communion with them, no no, no in like I think that's the biggest thing is like I've had a lot of great conversations with Catholics, I have some friends that are Catholic and there's a lot of things I think we agree on mm-hmm there are, I think, some really big fundamental things that I heavily disagree on that. I'm just like I don't think I don't see Christ in that belief mm-hmm you know, I mean and, and I don't also don't see that in the Bible. You know, like, those are the two big ones when it comes to like anything traditional and not really saying that it's worth debating or anything here. But I do get what you're saying, like there is a lot I admire, mm-hmm, you know, just, and especially like, if it's been around this long like man, I think it's almost like proof that, like saying, would worm in into it and try to essentially defraud it. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, it makes sense that there's evil people trying to sneak in and take advantage of it, mm-hmm. And what's the worst-case scenario? Those evil people make the Catholic Church work look bad, mm-hmm, but to them they got to do the evil they wanted to do. You know what I mean, right? So all I said, man, we've been going for a bit and I feel bad because I had actually an agenda tonight. I won't do. I ask you about the Fritz, are we just gonna do to tonight? I guess I mean we could. What time is it? I don't know. Oh, it's kind of late, we'll see all right. Well, yeah, we'll make. We'll make a game time decision after the PP break yeah, exactly, but anyways, I just want to say thanks for joining us again. You know we call you Ken because, like we said, we hope that this conversation we have of a lot of random stuff would just be provoking you to talk to someone, whether they're another listener or not, and just hopefully start building out that community so that way we don't have such a isolated and individualist society, but that we have a society that leans on one another, serves one another, sets an example for generations to follow of what it means to care for and support one another. You know that really sweet note, pat. You got anything you want to say?
Speaker 2:till next time.
